Maggies and rolled off treble

In the meantime, neurotic audiophiles spend fortunes on things like "extension" "air" "resolution" and and "transparency" making themselves miserable in the process and then spending another fortune on corrective measures like overpriced cables and silly tweaks.

Miserable? Not quite. Some of us just happen to like to hear the detail brought on by the great percussionists, pianists, guitarists, vs. a blob of midrange grain or attenuated trebles so evident in the electronic designs of the 1980s and before. Drop in any number of modern preamps in place of the SP-11 and you will not only hear significantly more clarity and dimensionality in the coveted midrange but much new information that has been hiding in your system all this time. It's on the LP or CD, you're just not hearing it.

... as well as most high priced "audiophile" speakers manufactured today.

That's quite a generality. And how many of these have you actually heard directly compared to each other in the same system?

This is why Magneplanars, LS35a's, Quad ESL 57's, Celestion 600's and precious few others are legendary speakers, many years after they were first manufactured.

Or are they legendary because they do the mids so well but so much else is compromised that the listener is solely focused on the mids. And for many of us, this is the most important range for a system to get "right". But once you hear a speaker do this and so much else, these "Legendary" speakers often get boxed up AND put in the attic. Oh, and you forgot to mention Spendor.

There's too much focus on rolled-off or attenuation and not much about resolution and clarity. The Magnepans I owned and heard at the dealer were never rolled-off....but they were mediocre at best in resolution compared to the SoundLab A1s I run with now.

Sorry Cwlondon, it's not neurotic --- it's magic.

Cwlondon..."Rolled off" is the wrong description for what MG1.6 speakers do. It is not a gradual thing. Based on my measurements they are flat right up to the last 1/3 octave on my analyser. In that octave they take a dive of several dB.

Midrange is the unsung hero of good audio and happy audiophiles.

This is why Magneplanars, LS35a's, Quad ESL 57's, Celestion 600's and precious few others are legendary speakers, many years after they were first manufactured.

In the meantime, neurotic audiophiles spend fortunes on things like "extension" "air" "resolution" and and "transparency" making themselves miserable in the process and then spending another fortune on corrective measures like overpriced cables and silly tweaks.

As far as generalization go - and the obvious limitations of making gross generalizations - I agree fully with this one!

One of the principle reasons for chasing accurate bass response with low distortion - is NOT TO MESS UP the lower midrange!!!

Most people miss this point altogether and focus only on the flat to 20Hz nonsense with bass distortion easily above 10% and terrible impulse response from ridiculously small narrow and often ported boxes...great on brochures and spec sheets, impressively aesthetic, amazing room pounding bass that defies the box size and makes reviewers "Oooh and Aahhh" - but really this is very BAD sound from a musical integrity perspective.

Where are the classic massive Tannoys from yesteryear? Gone because they make ugly furniture - who cares anymore about the sound?

I am a great believer in rolled off bass rather than a bunch of harmonic distorted crap - if it means an electrostat then yes this is indeed a better choice than many commonly available box speakers.

However we must accept that midrange focussed audiophiles have become somewhat of a rarity in a world of BOOM BOOM TIZZ BOOM BOOM TIZZ...

Good point Cwlondon!

I think those of you who know me well realize I like to get a bit cheeky once in a while, in the good natured pursuit of further conversation.

But Jafox you are sounding a little defensive.

I have also owned and enjoyed Apogees, Martin Logans, ATCs, Sequerra Pyramids, Epos and others over the years by the way.

I am sure my SP-11 is not the last word in air transparency and extension.

But in my experience, those attributes have never increased my ability to relax and enjoy the music.

They have, however, often increased my compulsion to buy more audio gear and/or increased my worries and stress that despite all the money I had spent, there still was something that just wasn't quite right with my system....

I otherwise agree Spendor (and also Harbeth) could be added to the list.

Are you a dealer by any chance?

If so, please feel free to forward my details to all of your customers who have boxed up their Quads and early Maggies in the attic and I will be more than happy to show them a fair bid.

Shadorne

Thanks for feeling my pain.

cwlondon

As far as generalization go - and the obvious limitations of making gross generalizations - I agree fully with this one!

Now here's a quote to carve into stone for eternity!

One of the principle reasons for chasing accurate bass response with low distortion - is NOT TO MESS UP the lower midrange!!!

Shadorne ... It's quite impossible for any speaker to mess up the lower midrange when the CD player upstream has already done a phenomenal job of this.

Most people miss this point altogether and focus only on....

Perhaps "most" people not into the hobby of high-end musical system. But I suspect that very very few A'gon members would put themself in Shadorne's "most" camp.

But Jafox you are sounding a little defensive.

My intent is to give a counter-view as I suspect I would be classified as being in the neurotic camp where effort is made to refine a system in every way possible, including cables and tweaks.

But in my experience, those attributes have never increased my ability to relax and enjoy the music.

The idea here is that added tonal coherency and resolution should be exclusive of musical enjoyment is a theme often covered here. There's been a lot written in these threads about resolution/detail/dynamics vs. dimensionality/ambiance/harmonics ..... when in fact, a well implemented system can achieve both ..... and result in relaxed listening. One does not have to sacrifice the frequency extremes to enjoy the great stuff in the middle. And I know this well as I owned the SP-10 for 8 years back in the 80s/90s. As great as it was to bring on the musical enjoyment, I was also aware of its severely subtractive nature. And today I have the magic I had with the SP-10 but so much more.

And no, I am not a dealer. Just another A'gon member here who has learned much from many people here.. They have made me aware of the possibilities because I was willing to take their advice and try some of their suggestions directly in my system ... rather than to discount their value because I had already made up my mind based on my own past experiences.