Jazz for aficionados


Jazz for aficionados

I'm going to review records in my collection, and you'll be able to decide if they're worthy of your collection. These records are what I consider "must haves" for any jazz aficionado, and would be found in their collections. I wont review any record that's not on CD, nor will I review any record if the CD is markedly inferior. Fortunately, I only found 1 case where the CD was markedly inferior to the record.

Our first album is "Moanin" by Art Blakey and The Jazz Messengers. We have Lee Morgan , trumpet; Benney Golson, tenor sax; Bobby Timmons, piano; Jymie merrit, bass; Art Blakey, drums.

The title tune "Moanin" is by Bobby Timmons, it conveys the emotion of the title like no other tune I've ever heard, even better than any words could ever convey. This music pictures a person whose down to his last nickel, and all he can do is "moan".

"Along Came Betty" is a tune by Benny Golson, it reminds me of a Betty I once knew. She was gorgeous with a jazzy personality, and she moved smooth and easy, just like this tune. Somebody find me a time machine! Maybe you knew a Betty.

While the rest of the music is just fine, those are my favorite tunes. Why don't you share your, "must have" jazz albums with us.

Enjoy the music.
orpheus10

Learsfool, your whole post was "wack". I had no idea there was so much difference between a jazz musician, and a classical musician. The only thing you can practice is a written piece of music, or you can practice familiarity with your musical instrument.

This is what it is about; to have a musical idea in your head, and to make your instrument audibly produce that sound exactly as you hear it in your head. That means your brain extends through your hands into the musical instrument and the precise sound you want to hear comes out.

The more I talk about this the clearer it becomes. Simply because others don't believe what I'm saying, only means they can't do it. How specific can I be in regard to the time he practiced, 00 during one summer when he lived in my apartment. Before that time, he had a number of jazz albums that he led, and many more where he was a side man with some of the musicians we have talked about ad infinitum. I have all of those albums and I listen to them frequently. None of those albums have the same music he was performing three nights a week to packed houses; he was in no way new to St. Louis fans and musicians.

I was mesmerized at each performance, and since I drove him to each performance (in the deuce) I never missed a one. Jazz musicians in St. Louis have performed as sidemen with practically all the famous jazz musicians we have discussed. A local musician I've known for a long time, showed me his photographic portfolio where he performed with the musicians we have discussed when they came to St. Louis, and needed his particular instrument. My friend had no trouble in getting accomplished jazz musicians on whatever other instruments he chose.

Jazz is really the best music to represent America because: It is partly planned and partly spontaneous; that is, as the musicians perform a pre-determined tune, they have the opportunity to create their own interpretations within that tune in response to the other musicians' performances and whatever else may occur "in the moment" -- this is called improvisation and is the defining element of jazz. Improvisation is the key element of jazz. There is no better example of democracy than a jazz ensemble: individual freedom but with responsibility to the group. In other words, individual musicians have the freedom to express themselves on their instrument as long as they maintain their responsibility to the other musicians by adhering to the overall framework and structure of the tune. He was the leader and they discussed for about an hour before they went on stage what was to take place. I looked and listened, but I might as well been looking and listening to Martians, musician talk is Greek to me.

These musicians did not play any standard tunes; that's why the house was packed, his fans did not come to hear "Stardust", they came to hear him "wail", jam, rock the house; they came to hear him, and he was like a wild man on his instrument.


Enjoy the music.




Frogman, I know you and Rok, are sick and tired of this, so am I, but it will go on until it ends.

When you see pictures of Miles talking to Coltrane, Cannonball, or Gil Evans, there is always written music in front of them. When these guys talked about what they were going to do before the event, there was no written music. I never recall seeing any "written music" at any time; now you can make whatever you like out of that.


Enjoy the music.

Rok, Frogman, Alex; David Pike is the subject; he has a lot of music that I've never heard before, and according to my sensibilities, it's all good music. Why don't we visit "you tube", and get back together with our favorites by him, or discuss why you don't like David Pike if it turns out that way; see you  in a bit.

Sorry folks, this is ending before it began; Pike's CD's run from $20 t0 $40, and that's too rich for my blood.


Enjoy the music.
O-10, to be frank, what I am sick of is the arrogance in attempts by a very accomplished professional musician (Learsfool) to offer some insights into somehting that you admit to knowing little about being dismissed as "wack".

****but I might as well been looking and listening to Martians, musician talk is Greek to me.****

At best, it shows bad form, and to my way of thinking, any doubt about the validity of what Learsfool might be saying should have stopped at that realization.  However, I can understand  (I think) how someone who lives by the supremacy of "subjectivism" above all else, when faced with a seemingly contradictory experience might feel as you do.  First, however, I need to quote a great comment by Learsfool that is key and if understood could eliminate a lot of the bullshit that this thread gets stuck in sometimes:

****The only difference is the idiom, not the process****

The astute and open-minded will notice shades of another important truism.

"There are only two kinds of music; good and bad (the other kind"- Duke Ellington

O-10, you have been presented with several quotes by jazz greats which show that jazz musicians PRACTICE!!!.  Yet you dismiss the testimony of Bird, Louis and Coltrane just as you dismiss the testimony of Herbie Hancock and many others about the importance of KOB.  Hmmm, I'm starting to see a pattern 😉 .  Moreover, you place a tremendous amount of stock on your experience living with a jazz musician who didn't practice for a summer and assume that this is indicative of how all jazz musicians view "the process".  

The process:

Your friend didn't practice for a summer.  So what?  Every musician goes through periods when, for whatever reason, they don't practice much.  They may be busy performing, or dealing with life issues, or depressed, or simply lazy.  I assure you, however, that while they may all have a different threshold beyond which they may feel unacceptably rusty, rusty at their craft they will get.  As Louis said, he knew it after one day.  

As you correctly said, every improvising musician (notice I didn't say jazz musician, per Learsfool's great comment) attempts to translate the abstract ideas in his head to the physical via actual musical expression.  To accomplish that the physical apparatus needs to be exercised in a disciplined way: PRACTICE!!!.  New musical ideas can only be expressed if the player has visited the technical landscape that those musical ideas are a part of.  Example: do you think that the great Freddie Hubbard could have executed those wide intervals that became part of his signature style if he had not spent countless hours PRACTICING wide intervals in every key, so as to have that as part of his "arsenal" and draw from it?  You will surely cry, "Oh, but that was in his formative years".  Wrong.  If you don't practice those tho gas you can't reliably execute them; hand and lip muscles are muscles like any others.  Just listen to late Art Pepper or Dexter Gordon for examples of rusty playing.  Even more importantly, new ideas are developed by "being in the woodshed" and exploring and teying new things musically; things which are not always possible to do in performance.  Do yourself a favor and Google *Coltrane practice* You will read more accounts, anecdotes and even interviews than you'll be able to absorb about his incessant practice routine as part of the creative process.  After a solo, he would walk off the bandstand and go to the bathroom to continue working out ideas.  He slept with a flute by his bed (yes he played flute) so he could practice laying in bed.

i am posting this in incomplete form because I am about to land back in NY and will be losing connectivity any moment.