O-10, to be frank, what I am sick of is the arrogance in attempts by a very accomplished professional musician (Learsfool) to offer some insights into somehting that you admit to knowing little about being dismissed as "wack".
****but I might as well been looking and listening to Martians, musician talk is Greek to me.****
At best, it shows bad form, and to my way of thinking, any doubt about the validity of what Learsfool might be saying should have stopped at that realization. However, I can understand (I think) how someone who lives by the supremacy of "subjectivism" above all else, when faced with a seemingly contradictory experience might feel as you do. First, however, I need to quote a great comment by Learsfool that is key and if understood could eliminate a lot of the bullshit that this thread gets stuck in sometimes:
****The only difference is the idiom, not the process****
The astute and open-minded will notice shades of another important truism.
"There are only two kinds of music; good and bad (the other kind"- Duke Ellington
O-10, you have been presented with several quotes by jazz greats which show that jazz musicians PRACTICE!!!. Yet you dismiss the testimony of Bird, Louis and Coltrane just as you dismiss the testimony of Herbie Hancock and many others about the importance of KOB. Hmmm, I'm starting to see a pattern 😉 . Moreover, you place a tremendous amount of stock on your experience living with a jazz musician who didn't practice for a summer and assume that this is indicative of how all jazz musicians view "the process".
The process:
Your friend didn't practice for a summer. So what? Every musician goes through periods when, for whatever reason, they don't practice much. They may be busy performing, or dealing with life issues, or depressed, or simply lazy. I assure you, however, that while they may all have a different threshold beyond which they may feel unacceptably rusty, rusty at their craft they will get. As Louis said, he knew it after one day.
As you correctly said, every improvising musician (notice I didn't say jazz musician, per Learsfool's great comment) attempts to translate the abstract ideas in his head to the physical via actual musical expression. To accomplish that the physical apparatus needs to be exercised in a disciplined way: PRACTICE!!!. New musical ideas can only be expressed if the player has visited the technical landscape that those musical ideas are a part of. Example: do you think that the great Freddie Hubbard could have executed those wide intervals that became part of his signature style if he had not spent countless hours PRACTICING wide intervals in every key, so as to have that as part of his "arsenal" and draw from it? You will surely cry, "Oh, but that was in his formative years". Wrong. If you don't practice those tho gas you can't reliably execute them; hand and lip muscles are muscles like any others. Just listen to late Art Pepper or Dexter Gordon for examples of rusty playing. Even more importantly, new ideas are developed by "being in the woodshed" and exploring and teying new things musically; things which are not always possible to do in performance. Do yourself a favor and Google *Coltrane practice* You will read more accounts, anecdotes and even interviews than you'll be able to absorb about his incessant practice routine as part of the creative process. After a solo, he would walk off the bandstand and go to the bathroom to continue working out ideas. He slept with a flute by his bed (yes he played flute) so he could practice laying in bed.
i am posting this in incomplete form because I am about to land back in NY and will be losing connectivity any moment.
****but I might as well been looking and listening to Martians, musician talk is Greek to me.****
At best, it shows bad form, and to my way of thinking, any doubt about the validity of what Learsfool might be saying should have stopped at that realization. However, I can understand (I think) how someone who lives by the supremacy of "subjectivism" above all else, when faced with a seemingly contradictory experience might feel as you do. First, however, I need to quote a great comment by Learsfool that is key and if understood could eliminate a lot of the bullshit that this thread gets stuck in sometimes:
****The only difference is the idiom, not the process****
The astute and open-minded will notice shades of another important truism.
"There are only two kinds of music; good and bad (the other kind"- Duke Ellington
O-10, you have been presented with several quotes by jazz greats which show that jazz musicians PRACTICE!!!. Yet you dismiss the testimony of Bird, Louis and Coltrane just as you dismiss the testimony of Herbie Hancock and many others about the importance of KOB. Hmmm, I'm starting to see a pattern 😉 . Moreover, you place a tremendous amount of stock on your experience living with a jazz musician who didn't practice for a summer and assume that this is indicative of how all jazz musicians view "the process".
The process:
Your friend didn't practice for a summer. So what? Every musician goes through periods when, for whatever reason, they don't practice much. They may be busy performing, or dealing with life issues, or depressed, or simply lazy. I assure you, however, that while they may all have a different threshold beyond which they may feel unacceptably rusty, rusty at their craft they will get. As Louis said, he knew it after one day.
As you correctly said, every improvising musician (notice I didn't say jazz musician, per Learsfool's great comment) attempts to translate the abstract ideas in his head to the physical via actual musical expression. To accomplish that the physical apparatus needs to be exercised in a disciplined way: PRACTICE!!!. New musical ideas can only be expressed if the player has visited the technical landscape that those musical ideas are a part of. Example: do you think that the great Freddie Hubbard could have executed those wide intervals that became part of his signature style if he had not spent countless hours PRACTICING wide intervals in every key, so as to have that as part of his "arsenal" and draw from it? You will surely cry, "Oh, but that was in his formative years". Wrong. If you don't practice those tho gas you can't reliably execute them; hand and lip muscles are muscles like any others. Just listen to late Art Pepper or Dexter Gordon for examples of rusty playing. Even more importantly, new ideas are developed by "being in the woodshed" and exploring and teying new things musically; things which are not always possible to do in performance. Do yourself a favor and Google *Coltrane practice* You will read more accounts, anecdotes and even interviews than you'll be able to absorb about his incessant practice routine as part of the creative process. After a solo, he would walk off the bandstand and go to the bathroom to continue working out ideas. He slept with a flute by his bed (yes he played flute) so he could practice laying in bed.
i am posting this in incomplete form because I am about to land back in NY and will be losing connectivity any moment.