Jazz for aficionados

Frogman,  you consider the version headed by Silver better than the "Jazz Messenger's"" on "Nica's Dream"? I'm still trying to pick up Art Blakey's sloppy drumming that makes the messengers version of "Nica's Dream" sound sleepy. Maybe you could give me the time where I should listen.

No "silly bickering" I'm just trying to be a more astute listener; especially since you and Rok said I don't want to learn anything, and you're the master musician. Now on Leon Thomas's yodeling, a bit much this time, he took it to the point of distraction, you stated. I listened to it a second time and he began his signature yodeling at 1:30 and carries it to 2:38; now that's just over a minute, when the song is 5:21 long, and according to you, just over a minute is to the point of distraction.

I know how much you appreciate clarity in communications, and that's what I'm striving for. I also think you stated that Blue Mitchell's solo sounded better than Donald Byrd's solo in the same spot. As good as Blue Mitchell is, he's no Donald Byrd, and that's not a subjective evaluation, it comes under objective evaluation, as almost any jazz aficionado will tell you.




Enjoy the music.

Here I was, thinking that over the last two days you were compiling a comprehensive list of albums and clips by Horace Silver; little did I know that you were ruminating over my comments 😊. O-10, I appreciate you striving for clarity and, more importantly, striving to be "a more astute listener". I think that there’s still work to be done. My thoughts why:

****especially since you and Rok said I don’t want to learn anything, and you’re the master musician. ****

No, O-10, we didn’t say that, YOU have said that; and you remind us every chance you get. And, no, I don’t consider myself a master musician, not even close; I will leave that designation to the likes of....well, I’ll leave it at that.

****I’m still trying to pick up Art Blakey’s sloppy drumming that makes the messengers version of "Nica’s Dream" sound sleepy. ****

I never said his playing was sloppy (on this cut); only that, imo, Blakey’s version was too slow. My commment:

****Blakey’s version sounds sleepy by comparison and lacking energy. ****

Your comment:

****but Blakey’s was "languid" meaning slow and relaxed; this was due to the slower pace, ****
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From Miriam-Webster dictionary:

"languid":
1
: drooping or flagging from or as if from exhaustion : weak
2
: sluggish in character or disposition : listless
3
: lacking force or quickness of movement : slow
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So, where’s the problem; where’s the disagreement?

Re Thomas:

"Yodeling" for over a minute?! Way too much for me. Why does someone who puts so much stock in "subjectivism" have an issue with my "subjective" opinion on this?

Re Mitchell:

**** I also think you stated that Blue Mitchell’s solo sounded better than Donald Byrd’s solo in the same spot. As good as Blue Mitchell is, he’s no Donald Byrd, and that’s not a subjective evaluation, it comes under objective evaluation, as almost any jazz aficionado will tell you.****

I didn’t say any such thing. I wasn’t comparing the two trumpet players; I compared, AS YOU ASKED US ALL TO DO, AND "DECIDE FOR YOU", which version was better. I said, that Mitchell’s solo alone made Silver’s version better for me. Now, please, pray tell, tell us where it is written that "almost any" aficionado thinks that Byrd was the better trumpet player; this aficinado certainly doesn’t. First of all, he’s not; and, moreover, does this not also fall under the heading of "subjectivism"? Just as a possibly interesting aside: one of the more curious little factoids about Mitchell’s career is that he looked (physically) so much like Freddie Hubbard and played so much at a similarly high level that he was sometimes confused for Freddie; someone who, I hope, we can agree was at the very highest level in the hierarchy of great trumpet players and a level where neither Mitchell (and certainly Byrd) were not quite at.

Got any Silver? Or, thoughts on Silver/Harris 😄
,

The reason that tune by Silver and Harris is almost unknown, is because it in no ways compares with their best works.

There are many yardsticks by which a jazz musician is judged and Blue Mitchell doesn't measure up to Donald Byrd, in that solo, or in body of works.

The Jazz Messengers were an influential jazz combo that existed for over thirty-five years beginning in the early 1950s as a collective, and ending when long-time leader and founding drummer Art Blakey died in 1990. Blakey led or co-led the group from the outset. "Art Blakey" and "Jazz Messengers" became synonymous over the years, though Blakey did lead non-Messenger recording sessions and played as a sideman for other groups throughout his career.

The group evolved into a proving ground for young jazz talent. While veterans occasionally re-appeared in the group, by and large, each iteration of the Messengers included a lineup of new young players. Having the Messengers on one's resume was a rite of passage in the jazz world, and conveyed immediate bona fide.

How could the "Jazz Messengers" accomplish this if Art Blakey was such a sloppy lazy drummer? And you still haven't explained how Leon Thomas's just over a minute of yodeling was to the point of distraction.



Enjoy the music.

Frogman;

Let me repeat, "I still appreciate your musical wisdom, for those like Rok, and Acman who benefit from it".

That was my post on 04-02-2016 7:11pm.

This was Rok's post immediately following that post.
 
We all know that you do not want to know anything about anything. What we don't know is why you are so ADAMANT about telling us this at every opportunity.

We get it.

This was after my comment about Art Blakey; "Before or after the beat".

And you're still talking about Blakey's "Lazy sloppy drumming"


I think this will end after the swallows come back to Capistrano, or the cows come home; whichever is first.




Enjoy the music.

If you say you don't like Leon Thomas's yodeling for just over a minute, when yodeling is his signature thing; that would mean that you just don't like Leon Thomas; and that most certainly would come under the "subjective" heading, but to say you like Leon Thomas, but not his minutes worth of yodeling sounds insincere. Since you want you're statement to come under the "subjective" heading, just say you don't like Leon Thomas.


Enjoy the music.