Jazz for aficionados

You two "Snarky Puppies" are not fooling anybody; you use to speak for Learsfool, now you're speaking for Rok, and neither one of you completely responded to Alex's post, and now you don't respond to mine, when all I'm trying to do is get the lies in regard to Grant Green's music straight so that I can buy the right CD's.

When I show you a review of the disputed music, you say I'm running a Grant Green fan club, when all I want is just a little friendly advice.



Enjoy the music.

Ok, O-10, lets play; if you insist.  Remember, as I said before, "don't expect silence when there is disrespect directed at a dissenting opinion".  Now, I realize that you need this bizarre interaction for reasons that only your shrink can figure out (although I have some pretty good ideas); so, let's just say I'm trying to help you out.  Let's go slowly and step by step for the sake of clarity:

I have tremendous respect for Alex and his contributions here, so....

****neither one of you completely responded to Alex's post****

- How exactly did I not respond to Alex's post?  What part of his post did I not address?  With specifics please.

****and now you don't respond to mine, ****

Seriously?  Your posts can be so convoluted and confused that it's practically impossible to respond to them.  However, as I see it, I responded in a perfectly clear way to what I believe is the heart of the matter re this ridiculous Grant Green business.  I will try it one last time.  My thoughts about Green; in a nutshell:

Really good guitar player who was, I would say, a significant influence on players like Wes Montgomery and George Benson; players who would go on to be the highest profile guitar players in the emerging funk/soul-jazz movement.  For a variety of reasons, his recordings toward the end of his career where not, in my opinion, on the same level as his classics.  Overall, as has been pointed out, not a "game changer" in the overall scheme of the music.

- So, how is any of that "a lie"?  A strange claim for someone who so often hides behind the "subjectivity" smoke screen.

- If by "lie" you refer to the issue of which records were released, when, which made it to Japan, etc. I am frankly not interested in those details.  As usual you sadly miss an opportunity to learn something about the music that is much more important:  what is it that defines a truly great musician?  what does it mean to have had an influence on the music?  what is influence?  what is it that shapes careers in music?  what is it the sustains careers in music?  how does the world of the music business work?  Oh, yeah....and, God forbid....what is it that some listeners don't like about Green’s later records and why?  

- Why the leaning on positive "reviews" by some unknown writer somewhere in the e-universe?  Who cares?  If you will give so much weight to these, why do you dismiss the ones critical of Green's late recordings? As has been said before, be confident with your opinions, respect those of others; and,  if you really want to do something productive, try and understand why some may disagree with you.

Lastly, I would like to bring up an issue that I have refrained from bringing up for quite some time out of.....yes, you heard it here, O-10.....respect for you as the OP.  However, you have done such a good job of eroding any semblence of adherence to the notion of respect that....what the hell!  It also goes to some comments I made recently that, in retrospect, I probably should not have made; but, like the guy hitting his head on the wall, well....sometimes the absurdity of it all is simply too much to take.  

I refer to the incongruesness and a kind of contradiction in the use of the word "aficionado" in conjunction with "jazz".  I have always found it to be a rather curious choice of words for the subject at hand.  From my vantage point, the main fuel for these ridiculous arguments is your insistence on personalizing matters; not only with your "hits below the belt" (disrespect), but also with your emphasis on "personal" accounts about musicians.  These "personal" accounts are often peppered with words and phrases intended to evoke a certain feeling of closeness to and supposed experience and familiarity with the musicians and their culture; phrases like "phaking the phunk", "dis here", "jam", "boss", "gitin down", and many more like them.  But, here's the curious thing:  jazz musicians don't talk like that.  What is this about?  I will concede that perhaps these are simply O-10'isms and nothing more; but, curious nonetheless.  Please enlighten me.

I realize  that I have thrown a lot your way.  A lot of things to address, but you wanted to play.  I am confident that if you take it step by step you can do it.  I know you can.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Yx9xO98kcBU

Frogman, you might as not even read my post, because you write anything you want anyway, that has no relation to my post.

My last post was about "records"; those are the things that existed before CD's were invented. They were in Japan before Grant Green died; they were in the hands of Japanese collectors, while fans like me were unaware of their very existence, how do you explain that? We did not know about their existence till after Grant Green was dead and long buried.

Now I guess you and Rok will give me a perfectly good explanation that will include Prince, Elvis, Miles, Chuck Berry, and you might as well throw in the Pope. Now you say you're not concerned about records when that's exactly what my post was about. Since you and Rok are in lockstep, you can answer for him.

I saw Grant Green the person many times, I even talked to him face to face, I liked his music very much, I should have been able to purchase his records; they should have been in my collection, not some Japanese collection. The question is why? Why were they not available for purchase in the United States where the man lived and died, where Rok who is so patriotic that if I say anything that might hint at failure of the government is all over me, but he doesn't see anything wrong with records that were not made available to citizens of this country, but were made available to citizens of Japan.


Enjoy the music.

Jon Hendricks:

Why on earth would it suffer the same fate as the Bey Sisters?  Great stuff indeed.  Rok, you may not recall, but I posted that very Freddie Freeloader clip a couple of years ago (!).  And, coincidentally and if memory serves, I posted some Manhattan Transfer in my comments about The Bey Sisters around the same time; we must have been on a vocal group binge at the time.  Great clips.  Jon Hendricks kills me.

BTW,  re Benson's singing: one of the reasons that he rose and became a star in the soul/jazz guitar scene and Green lost some steam; imo.  There is a long tradition of vocalists taking improvised instrumental solos and scatting them and/or putting lyrics to them.  Manhattan Transfer's rendition of Coleman Hawkins' famous solo on "Body And Soul", long considered one of the milestone recorded jazz solos (and available here as well as Japan :

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SAqUNlWUxlA

****Since you and Rok are in lockstep.....****

Horrors!  I don't think so.  When I can get Rok to agree with me about the sound of audio cables....then, maybe 😄.  O-10, it's simpy called respect and confidence in one's opinions.  You can join the party anytime.