Anybody else using a distributed array sub system?


     I was just about to respond to zardozmike's forum post titled 'subwoofers' about suggestions for subs for Magnepan MGIII speakers but decided a new post might be more useful for him and others.  I have Magnepan 2.7QR speakers and posted a similar question about a year ago.  After reading his thread, I realized he was getting about the same responses I had received.  All were very good responses but I thought a new thread detailing my effective solution may be more relevant and attract responses from other users of a distributed array sub system.    


     About a year ago I purchased the Audio Kinesis DEBRA (Distributed-Eq Bass Reflex Array) sub system from James Romeyn Music and Audio in Utah. Here's a link describing the system:


http://jamesromeyn.com/old-pages/home-audio-gear/dsa-1-0-distributed-subwoofer-array-5-pieces-4k-usd...

 

       This system is expensive at $2,990 but well worth the investment.  I rationalized the price by noting it's about the same as a pair of very good regular subs.


     The performance of this system in my 23' x 14' living room is excellent.  The bass can be fast, tight and tuneful for music or loud and impactful for music and home theater.  The subs seem to disappear since there are no audible clues to their locations; the bass is very well integrated into the music and movies. From my personal experience, I'm not convinced of the reality of stereo bass but was willing to give it a try.    I was originally thinking of buying 2 high quality subs such as Rhythmik, SVS, JL, Martin/Logan, Vandersteen or REL.  I was skeptical of the DEBRA system at first but, after reading a lot of research about multiple sub systems on the internet, I decided to give it a try and I'm now very thankful that I did. 


     Because it is such an ideal system for me, and because I think it would work well in almost any room or system, I want to go into more detail about the system, its setup and the theory behind it. I have no affiliation with the company but will admit, after considerable phone and email time with the dealer, that I now consider James Romeyn a friend of mine but don't know if he feels likewise.

     The system consists of the following:

A dedicated Dayton Audio mono class A/B amp rated at 950 watts @ 4 ohms with dual A&B spkr output terminals.

4 67lb. bass-reflex  subs that measure a relatively small 23.75" H x 14.5" W x 10.375" D.

Each sub is ported on the bottom, supported by 3 spiked cones and contains a single 10" 4 ohm driver. The subs are designed to be facing, and within 2" of, the room walls.

     The setup procedure is:

Sub#1 is hooked up and placed on its back  (driver facing the ceiling) at the normal listening position.  Music is played that has good and repetitive bass.

Walk around the edges of the room and determine exactly where the bass sounds best to you.

Attach the 3 spiked footers to Sub#1 and position it upright facing the nearest wall to the spot you determined the bass sounded best.

Sub#2 is hooked up and placed on its back at the primary listening position. With sub 1 & 2 playing, continue walking around the edges of your room and determine again where the bass sounds best to you.

Attach the 3 spiked footers to Sub#2 and position it upright facing the nearest wall to the spot you determined the bass sounded best.

Repeat this procedure for sub 3 & 4.

Small positioning adjustments may need to be made for each sub due to avoiding furniture and the WAF. 

Once completed, final sub hook up is done in parallel:

Attach a single wire from the amp's speaker A's pos. output terminal and to Sub#1's pos. input terminal.

Attach a single wire from the amp's speaker A's neg. output terminal and to Sub#2's neg. input terminal.

Attach a single wire from Sub#1's neg. input terminal to Sub#2's pos. input terminal.

Attach Sub 3 & 4 using this parallel method on the amp's speaker B's output terminals.

I ordered single, high quality and low gauge speaker wire along with the sub system for a very reasonable price. Once the ideal locations for the subs was determined, I drilled holes in my room's floor to the crawl space below, and was able to hide the connecting wires. 

     I'm definitely not an expert on subs or room acoustics but, from my reading, here is how I understand the theory behind the distributed array sub systems:


The lower the frequency the longer the sound wave produced, or launched,  into a room. 

Since these waves can be even longer than the actual dimensions in many rooms, these low frequency waves bounce off room surfaces and the music may dictate subsequent bass waves being launched into this acoustic environment. These initial waves, their reflections and subsequent bass waves inevitably collide and cause 'standing waves'.

Areas in the room where sound waves meet can make the bass sound under emphasized, over emphasized or even totally missing (nulls caused by wave cancelation).

When one sub is launching low frequency waves from 1 specific location, areas in a specific room where bass response is not accurate will be numerous and predictable based on sub location and room dimensions.

Adding a 2nd sub to the room will decrease standing waves and increase bass accuracy and bass dispersion.

According to scientific studies I read, standing waves are reduced, and bass accuracy and dispersion increased, as more subs are used in a given room.  Their experiments utilized more subs than anyone would even consider for home use. They basically concluded that the more subs in a room, the fewer standing waves are perceived and the better the bass quality and bass dispersion results.

However, they determined that most of the benefits are gained with the use of 4 subs, with only minimal and incremental gains in performance attained through additional subs.  Due to practical room considerations, the researchers recommended 4 subs for an effective distributed array bass system.


     So that's the equipment, set-up and the theory behind the DEBRA system and I can personally attest to its effectiveness in my room.  I have 6 listening/viewing positions in my combination music and ht system in my living room.  Bass response is equally good at all 6 positions without the use of acoustic devices (no absorbing or diffusing panels or bass traps) and without any electronic  equalization (room analysis/correction equipment, software or eq).  I should mention I've never had my system/room analyzed using a mike and software.  From my purely subjective perspective, however, I'm confident the results would be good since I spent hours on the setup and critical listening from all six listening positions in my room.  I would suggest this type of sub system as a viable alternative for anyone considering investing in one or more quality subs.  The system is rated clean at 113 decibels at 20 hz.  I've often heard and felt it go much lower.  It feels and sounds clean and right but I can't verify the decibels or lack of distortion.


Sorry this turned out so long and windy,

  Tim

Also, my system photos are old but I'll try to update them showing my current system (with the subs and new electronics) soon.



     


  

128x128noble100
johnnyb53,

Forgot you said 'I dialed in my subs With a Little Help From My Friends'(Sgt. Pepper album track).  Informative, witty and funny.... excellent.

Tim 
dcbingaman,

     Are you stating that you're using a 5-sub Swarm system along with your pair of Vandersteen Quatro Woods that each have their own built-in sub?

First, that means you have a total of 7 subs in your room.
Second, I didn't know the Swarm was available with an extra 5th sub.

Very interesting, please clarify,
  
Thanks,
 Tim
Tim, the basic Swarm system comes with four subwoofer speakers, ported 10" drivers in a 1.6 cu. ft. box.  I had a cut out in the front wall that my V2W fit in that was too short for Duke's subs, so he made a 5th one for me to fit that space.  Same driver and Thiele-Small alignment but with a fatter and shorter box.  I use the Swarm Dayton rack amp in series/parallel for the four 4 ohm subs in the room, and a 300W BASH plate amp for the 5th one.  They are all driven from the LFE output from the Meridian which is split between the processor and the amps.

The Quatros are run full range and uses two 8" drivers and an internal 250W amp.  I run the Quatro analog EQ flat.  The center channel, a VCC-5, is crossed over at 60 Hz and the VSM-1 surrounds are crossed over at 80 Hz.  I usually use Meridian's Trifield DSP which uses the L, R, C and LFE for stereo recordings, and discrete for 5.1 recordings.

dcbingaman,

     Thanks for clarifying.  So, in effect, your system does consist of 7 subs; the 2 in your main Vandersteens, the normal 4 Swarm subs driven by the supplied amp and an extra 5th Swarm sub located in-wall that's driven by a dedicated BASH plate amp.  As you described, I now understand how it produces extraordinary bass response in your room; the 7 subs not only supplying great bass quantity but also great bass dispersion and smoothness. 

   Now that I better understand your bass system setup, I have 2 questions concerning the extra 5th sub located in your custom wall cut-out section and driven by a BASH plate amp:

1.  Is the 5th sub's  driver pointed at the back wall of the cut-out section like other Swarm subs are pointed at your regular room walls?

2.  Do you think driving all the Swarm subs with  class D amps, like your Bash amp for the extra 5th sub, would offer any sonic improvements when compared to the standard Swarm class A/B amp?  


   I'm not considering adding a 5th sub because I don't view it as a need in my room, just curious.      

   I have considered swapping out my subs' class A/B amp for a powerful class D amp just to see if the switch would be as noticeable on my subs as it was on my Magnepan 2.7s when I switched from 200 watts class A/B  to 1,200 watts class D driving them.   I know for my 2.7s the increase in bass performance was due mostly to the increase in wattage and not  the change in class, but I welcome all improvements and class D watts are relatively inexpensive.  I really have no complaints with the supplied 950 watt A/B amp for the Debra; I don't want to give the impression that it's not a good amp because it has been working very well. 

Thanks,
 Tim
Noble100 said:
   
In your case, I think the main advantages of using a distributed sub array instead of your dual MM8 subs would be even more consistent bass throughout your room and perhaps deeper bass extension that is more impactful and visceral.
No argument here. If I had the space and funds I'd probably have a Swarm. However, these Mirage MM8s were a stone cold bargain for me. They retailed at $799 each and it showed--diecast frame long throw drivers and 1400 W peak each. I got them on closeout--when Klipsch or Audiovox started selling off and ransacking Mirage and its patents--for $250 ea. They are 9" cubes, sealed enclosures, with long throw 8" aluminum drivers that are flanked on the sides by same-size and materials (minus the motor) passive radiators. I have them turned backwards so the active drivers face the wall behind the Maggies with about 2" space to pressure-load the bass waves like a downfiring sub would. As it is, with the Maggies' dipole aspect canceling the 100-200 Hz in-room hump and the Mirage's 0-180 deg. continuous phase dial, I can get excellent and uniform integration, and together the pair is capable of adding a lot of thump. However, it doesn't go all that deep--probably around 36 Hz--and I'd love some subs that would take me cleanly and strongly into the 20's, but I have to stand pat and enjoy what I have for awhile.