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Loudspeakers have we really made that much progress since the 1930s?

Since I have a slight grasp on the history or loudspeaker design. And what is possible with modern. I do wonder if we have really made that much progress. I have access to some of the most modern transducers and design equipment. I also have  large collection of vintage.  I tend to spend the most time listening to my 1930 Shearer horns. For they do most things a good bit better than even the most advanced loudspeakers available. And I am not the only one to think so I have had a good num of designers retailers etc give them a listen. Sure weak points of the past are audible. These designs were meant to cover frequency ranges at the time. So adding a tweeter moves them up to modern performance. To me the tweeter has shown the most advancement in transducers but not so much the rest. Sure things are smaller but they really do not sound close to the Shearer.  http://www.audioheritage.org/html/profiles/lmco/shearer.htm
128x128johnk
larryi
1,972 posts
 

Johnk,

I am so much in agreement with you on how good the old WE, Shearer, etc. systems (or modern systems built around old drivers/parts) can sound.  Most listeners have not had the opportunity to hear such systems at all, much less at their best.  Yes, the compact, art deco WE 753 is quite a nice system, but, it is quite expensive these days and it is hard to find all of the drivers in good working order (a friend just bought one which, unfortunately, had a bad 713 driver).  I heard a fantastic open baffle system that utilized a cabinet that is a replica of the 753 but housed a Jensen M10 field coil driver plus a tweeter (probably a 302); this was a fantastic speaker (I am thinking about a similar speaker utilizing the Jensen M10 and a WE 597 tweeter or a Japanese 597 replica).   

I agree with your earlier comment about Tungar power supplies for field coils.  I have heard both vintage Tungars and Tungars with hand-wound rebuilt transformers and I have heard them in comparison to some very nice modern solid state power supplies.  I happen to like the Tungars more, a result I was not really expecting.  The rebuilt Tungar I heard was dead quiet--no hum from the speaker or mechanical hum from the Tungar at all.

These vintage systems are certainly not for everyone's taste, particularly if extremely loud and deep bass is a priority, but, from the upper bass on up, these speakers can be magical.

213runnin
562 posts
 
Taste comes into play here, certainly, as does vintage bias and the "they-don't-make-'em-like-they-used-to" bias, or the "China sucks" bias.  

Technology has advanced to such an extent that the '30's can realistically be seen as the cave man days, in many respects.  Certainly with computer testing and engineering, what can be purchased today for say a week's wages versus the 1930's would be worlds apart.  The modern cabinet, drivers, and crossover all benefit greatly from new discoveries, techniques and a body of knowledge WRT making a good speaker that the 1930's can only dream of.

Now one may prefer a speaker from the 1930's era, but that doesn't really prove anything except that there is no accounting for taste.
orpheus10
5,988 posts
 

I noticed no one has mentioned the Heil Air Motion transformer; that came out in the 70's I believe, and there were some two way speakers that utilized it. Although I liked the highs that two way produced, the mid-range just wasn't mellow enough.

I liked the highs so much that I designed 3 way speakers with that for the tweeter, 12 inch woofer, and 6 inch midrange. I engaged a crossover engineer to design the crossover (far too complicated for me), and that completed my speaker; it's completely neutral, and takes on the quality of whatever electronics are used; you can tell a change in interconnects immediately.

Although I'm listening to them now, I would never do it again; I spent 20 years redoing the cabinets until I was satisfied, but that's the only way to get precisely what you want.

I noticed a lot of speakers lately are using miniature Heil Tweeters.


  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Motion_Transformer


  http://www.simplyspeakers.com/ess-replacement-tweeter-air-motion-transformer-amt-heil.html



Enjoy the music.
timlub
1,649 posts
 

Heil is a folded ribbon, funny, I've got a pair from a pair of ESS from 1978 that I'm building a 12 inch 3 way with now also...

but I believe the first ribbon was from quad in the early to mid 50's. 

phusis's avatar
phusis
350 posts
 
Technology has advanced to such an extent that the '30's can realistically be seen as the cave man days, in many respects. Certainly with computer testing and engineering, what can be purchased today for say a week's wages versus the 1930's would be worlds apart. The modern cabinet, drivers, and crossover all benefit greatly from new discoveries, techniques and a body of knowledge WRT making a good speaker that the 1930's can only dream of.

Technology is one thing, another is its application. The size of speakers (i.e.: radiation area) and their efficiency has gone from large and high to small and low, both of which I'd say are among rather fundamental factors in achieving a lifelike sound reproduction, and where advancement in technology can only bring you so far with smaller and less efficient speakers; there's no escaping fundamental physics.

An analogy: think about the state of technology in the 60's in the beginning of the space age, and where it got the Saturn V rocket and its inhabitants: to the moon - a feat that hasn't been replicated since the last moon landing in '72. You'd imagine going to the moon in our present day with its highly advanced technology and crazy computer power would be a piece of cake, relatively speaking, and yet it hasn't happened. A priority, obviously, but some 45 years ago a select group of astronauts stood on the moon and looked at the Earth - having had only the computer power of a poor pocket calculator of todays build. This is not to say the space age in the wake of the Apollo missions has been in vain, but no (wo)man has since gone that far into space and walked on another celestial body. 

Making loudspeakers that effectively approaches a lifelike sonic imprinting "simply" requires the will, skill and materials to do so, with no excuse nor catering to size constraints or other marketing-laden interferences. They apparently got off to a good start over 80 years ago, and perhaps part of the recipe here was a predominant reliance on the ears coupled with a goal that involved a natural reference, rather than an industry-established, navel-gazing hi-fi agenda where branding and small size is all-important.
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