Jazz for aficionados

O-10, I’m sorry, but you really don’t understand; worse, you don’t want to understand. I have no issue whatsoever with you needing to feel that you are correct; the shame is that you don’t understand why it’s not a question of which is better. Again, please go over what I have written and note that I have not, at any point, said that I would "place Trane over Bird". That is just the simplistic place where you always want to take the issue: "who was better". The question was and remains whether (according to you) Bird could have played everything that Trane played. The answer is a resounding NO. The fact that Bird came before and heavily influenced Trane (and every other modern player) does, in no way, preclude the fact that Trane took improvisation to a place that Bird never did. Again, the nature of the art form. That does not make Trane "better". To understand this idea is to understand jazz. Personally, I wouldn’t worry so much about the "aficionado" designation; so, feel free to take that title away from me if it makes you feel better.

(Funny, when I read that word in the context of music as earthy and soulful as jazz, it always evokes an image of Hugh Heffner with a pipe in his mouth and some scantily clad bunny lurking in the background 😘).

Now if you want fast and complex; here's some of "Birds" best bop.


          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1aMCviqO95k


Here's "Bird" on Savoy Vinyl. Like I said; some can hear; while others can not. Although I feel blessed to be able to hear and comprehend this beautiful music, I would feel even more blessed if you could hear it as well; I mean hear it with your inner ear that can comprehend the incomprehensible. This music is from the soul; that's different from soul music.


              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zl5P0cfiR2M&list=RDZl5P0cfiR2M#t=99


That is not to say that John Coltrane did not have a language of his own


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=clC6cgoh1sU&index=5&list=RDZl5P0cfiR2M



Enjoy the music.

Frogman, I feel that I got sucked into a silly argument, that I didn't want to be in, in the first place, and now you cop out.

And what about this;


Btw, I think you shortchange others on this forum. There are many participants here who, for (I assume) various reasons, choose not to participate in this thread. I base that on comments I read made on other threads. Imo, it's always best to not make too many assumptions about what and how much one knows; personally, I prefer to focus on what I may not know.


These are your words, could you please expand on them; they allude to some mysterious reason others who are jazz aficionados choose not to participate in this particular thread; could you expand on your own words.

Frogman, this is your cup of tea, you could go back and forth on something like this for days on end. I can certainly see how others would get discouraged in watching this "bruha" that is not a productive, or enjoyable discussion about the music. That sounds like a very good reason not to participate in this thread.