Questioning the need for a DAC


Friends,
I have a modified Oppo 103 that was a huge step up from my $2K Consonance tube CD player.  I also have a Jolida FX Tube DAC, maybe the II version, which I have had for many years.  I ran the Oppo directly into my system (I have a Don Sachs tube preamp and various amps, tube and SS, and Spatial Audio Hologram M4 Turbo S speakers) and then through the Jolida.  I honestly didn't hear a difference.  Some months later,  I demo'd a Schiit Gungnir and did the same comparison.  I really couldn't discern an audible difference with the Schiit in or out of the system.  I will admit that I sent the Schiit back for a refund after only 30 hours or so of burn-in so maybe 100 hours of burn-in might have lead to a different outcome.  A boatload of audiophiles rave about the sonic improvement with the pricey DAC's in their systems, no question about it.  With my ears, not so much.  

A "cheap and cheerful" audiophile friend of mine, who doesn't listen to much digitally-reproduced music, posed an interesting question.   If one invests in a modern quality CD player (i.e., like the Oppo 103 or 105, which make the Stereophile list of "Class A" products or many others between $1K-$5K), why is there the expectation that one needs a separate DAC to improve the sound of the DAC?   It is not trivial question.  As a matter of fact, I called Oppo while I was auditioning the Schiit DAC, nonplussed, asking why I wasn't hearing some significant improvement with the addition of an external DAC of the caliber of the Gungnir.  In response, the Oppo rep suggested, quite casually, that maybe the internal DAC in the modestly-priced Oppo 103 was quite good.  Indeed, because that is what my 63-year old ears told me.

I'd be keen to hear feedback from others who ponder the same question.   As I age, I am aware of the desire of sellers of many audio products to strike a deal with me that frankly might benefit them more financially than I  benefit sonically.  Cheers, Mark 

  
whitestix
I did a A/B test with the CIA DAC/power supply vs. straight in from the Oppo (it was just twist of the selector knob on the preamp) and honestly I didn't find any noticeable difference in sound in a 100+ comparisons with lots of different music.  It is what it is.  

I'm not saying there is no difference between CIA DAC and Oppo, but there is a point where the quality of the interconnect (as well as power cord, resolution of the preamp/amp, etc.) becomes a limiting factor.  I have experienced comparing two DACS with, for example, an old Harmonic Tech interconnect.  I could not hear any difference between the two.  However, when using a self-constructed OCC copper solid-core braided interconnect, I could definitely hear that one DAC was highly superior.  In this case, the Harmonic Tech was limiting the resolution from the DAC source.
Good point, Aux, I might have to swap some IC's around to make an apples-to-apples comparison.  

Whitestix -  FYI - over the last 4 years I have found that IC's and PC's can degrade or enhance the performance of any component.

Trying to perform a comparison of two components connected with different IC's and PC's can result in an inaccurate assessment

Quality PC's in particular, can have a huge impact on the performance of a connected component but it also depends on how good the power supply of that component is.

I found that the better the power supply, the less "noticeable" impact the PC had, but I hasten to add that the improvements of a good PC on a component with a good power supply, the improvements became more subtle and refined (i.e. I had to listen more intently initially)

An example of this ...

- my Bifrost DAC (with an OK power supply), when connected with an excellent PC and IC provided a most noticeable improvement in dynamics, imaging, bass depth etc..

- whereas attaching the same cables to my Simaudio Moon phono stage, (that has a better quality power supply) provided more subtle improvements in the extremely fine details and clarity

- my amp. having the biggest power supply, seemed to improve the least, but the improvements were there in the acoustics of the venue, hence a more realistic overall presentation 

When I experienced just how much difference cables made, it became apparent that my components were capable of performing so much better than I had realized and to get them all performing at their best, I decided all my cables had perform to the same level.

Good luck with your comparisons
@williewonka You're welcome anytime you come down Philadelphia way. Off topic, I love Toronto and used to spend many weekends there when I live just "across the lake" in Rochester. One of my fav record store towns back in the day. Hope vinyl still thrives there. Cheers,
Spencer