Vinyl and subwoofers


I have a pair of Thiel 3.6 and a Thiel ss1 sub with the prescribed Thiel crossover. I have a pretty good vinyl rig with a Clearaudio performance se, Stradivari cartridge and a ARC PH8 phonostage. Although the Thiels go down to 20hz, an audiogon member  persuaded me that I was missing something without a subwoofer. What I have heard with the Thiel SS1 sub and prescribed crossover is an amplification of record imperfections I was not aware of without the sub. As well, the overall sound seems often muddied. Has anyone else had this problem with vinyl? Is this a problem with my setup? Any insights are very appreciated.
golferboy
Hi Golferboy

"The worst record for this is Boxer, by the National"


The band recorded Boxer with producer Peter Katis, with vocalist Matt Berninger stating, "We recorded a lot of it at home. Probably half and half of home recording and recording with Peter in the studio. We always kind of work that way, going in and out of studios and then back home. We have little home set-ups. .....

taken from here

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boxer_(album)

Sounds like a good candidate for recording venue related to me. But I do not own the album.

All the album tracks here. have been listening to it :^)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHaln2drAdc&list=PLVKXUV0dJqqmO-Sac6-4Dl1myCMDGGTAx&index=2

************************

If you bring a woofer into a speaker repair shop to have it fixed, before they give it back to you they run a test signal through it.

from memory sending a 10 - 20 hz through a 12 inch woofer will make it oscillate violently and depending on design it will eventually stop above that.

re your Classe Amp

As a Canadian I have owned my share of Classe amps.

Going from memory again.

Re; The CA series I remember talking to Robert of Classe in Montreal. He told me their design was "more - and smaller" capacitors for quick energy transfer.  The drawback I found with CA - 300 and 400 was a rounded bass. It sounded good - tube like in the mids and higher. But the bass was bettered by both my Krell and modded Music Reference RM9 Tube Amp with KT-88 tubes. I also remember having to have the speakers closer to boundaries with the Classe. The speakers were able to moved back out with the other amps.

You have been through many phono stages. Did any previous pre/phono stages have a subsonic filter ?

Fun thread BTW.
First place to start: What is the subwoofer's crossover point?

In my HT, my mains go strongly down to 29Hz and audibly to 26 Hz. If my crossover to the sub is set higher than 40 Hz, I get muddy bass and lower midrange. 
cleeds,
Can't explain why others don't have the problem and I can't explain why others do. "Not plausible" does not rule out the possibility that the setup is screwy. That said, ok ok, I'll check it. :) Why is having the sub only 4 ft away from table a problem with concrete?
ct0517,
No stage had a filter. I have no doubt that a Krell is better...just wish I had the bucks.

golferboy
Why is having the sub only 4 ft away from table a problem with concrete?
The concrete has nothing to do with it. The close proximity between subwoofer and turntable suggests you may have some acoustic feedback between the two. That is only going to exacerbate any other problem you're having with setup.

I'm not familiar with your turntable. It's possible that it's just not well isolated. That may also be contributing to your problem.