Class D Technology


So I get the obvious strengths of Class D. Efficiency, power output & running cool which allows for small form factors. I also understand the weaknesses somewhat. 1. Non-linear & lots of distortion that needs to be cleaned up with an output filter. 
So my question is, if it weren't for efficiency & power, would there be any reason to own a Class D amp? Do they beat Class A in any other categories that count for sound quality?  
seanheis1
Yet you, Mr. Designer, dismiss Class D as nothing more than midfi.......
Apparently you've not read this thread or you would not have said that; IOW this statement is false.

Lower cost for manufactures, which seems to result in higher margins instead of reduced retail prices. Manufactures have to of course be careful of cannibalization.
This is true- and is a time-honored technique in the world of audio going back a good 60-70 years. First I can recall is when they went from electro-magnet speakers to permanent magnets. Permanent magnet speakers are cheaper to make but we didn't see the price go down way back then. After that it was the transition from high efficiency loudspeakers to lower efficiency types as transistors came in; lower efficiency speakers are cheaper to make but we didn't see the price go down all that much. Then there was the transition from tubes to solid state. Solid state amps are a lot cheaper to build- no filament circuit and no output transformer but the price really didn't go down.  Then we went from LP to CD and CDs are lot cheaper to build but we didn't see the price go down (instead we saw the price of LPs go up after the record industry sorted out that there was still a demand...). Now we're seeing class D supplant traditional solid state in many ways but for some reason they aren't particularly cheaper even though they are cheaper to make.  

Atmasphere


Yes, I have read this thread in its entirety. You could not have made it anymore clear. Go back to the beginning of this thread and read your own post. Not a false statement.

I have no dog in this discussion/fight/whatever, but FWIW I believe the statement Mr_m is referring to is the following:
Atmasphere 11-3-2016
Right now the technology is to the point where the amps have become practical for mid fi, but they still have a ways to go before they can challenge a good class A transistor amp or a good tube amp. There is no question that this is a technology to be watched.
FWIW I do not interpret that statement as "dismiss[ing] Class D
as nothing more than midfi......."  As I read the statement it does not by any means exclude the possibility that the best present day implementations of class D may be much better than mid-fi, while nevertheless not being as good as what well implemented class A solid state or a good tube amp can presently offer.

Personally I take no position on this, having no experience with class D.  But that is how I interpret Ralph's statement.

Regards,
-- Al

 
Yes, I have read this thread in its entirety. You could not have made it anymore clear. Go back to the beginning of this thread and read your own post. Not a false statement.
Obviously I could have been more clear or this conversation would not be happening!

Al’s got it right. Note where I say ’good’ twice in the statement Al is quoting.

As I have mentioned before, we’ve been playing with Class D for about the last 15 years. While I think they have gotten much better (15 years ago they were a joke) I’ve yet to hear one that keeps up with a ***good*** amplifier of conventional design (note emphasis; FWIW I’m used to listening to some pretty ’good’ amplifiers...). High end audio is pretty variable and I know of amps that are considered high end that I personally don’t think are all that good. I know of one such amp that has balanced inputs yet its CMRR (Common Mode Rejection Ratio) is about 18 which is pretty terrible if not outright criminal.

So I can see the interpretation issue. Most class D amps have specs and sound that are similar to many midfi amps (take a look at a Kenwood car stereo’s specs and compare to many ’high end’ amps and you will see that there’s not a lot of difference). Some don’t; they’re better. And they will continue to improve.

For example the scan frequency is continuing to rise. George makes a pretty big point about this. You can’t scan at 100KHz and get good high end resolution. 250KHz is in fact marginal if you really want to do it right.

As I mentioned before, you can get high power high speed output devices that switch at the speeds needed, but they cost so much right now that the resulting amplifier would be a lot more expensive than a tube amp of the same power would be (tubes are usually the most expensive form of power). So as a result no-one uses devices like that. In fact many designers simply use chip sets so they’re locked into the performance of whatever the semiconductor house provides (who rarely have audiophile interest at heart).
Just to ad to Ralph, why would Technics (SE-R1) strive to develop twice the current going switching frequency, if there was no point to it.
But you pay for this first off development $30k! But the price will come tumbling down when others adopt it. But it also still needs to be higher again.

Cheers George