Request advice-need "brighter" speakers than Totem Hawks


Hi All-
Love the community here; first time poster.
My gear:
i have a pair of Totem Hawks, driven by Sim Audio W-5 amp and P-5 pre. I listen primarily to Redbook CDs via a Marantz SA8005. Cables are all Audience AU24SE. I listen both through a modded Eastern Electric DAC (op amp upgraded, tube removed) and direct from CDP to preamp (teensy sound difference between DAC/no DAC, if any). My medium sized room is pretty dead sonically (carpet, textile window coverings).

My Issue:
The high frequencies are uncrisp, rolled off severely, muted, and just lacking generally, especially on contemporary works (jazz, rock). I don’t hear cymbals, hi-hats, or rich, crisp snare drums (yeah, I’m a drummer). Listening to my favorite disks is a deeply disappointing experience, Though classical sounds ok to fine. I am thinking that I need brighter speakers than the Hawks (though there are numerous folks who extoll Sim Audio plus Totem speakers, something is not right. I do have a bit of hi-freq. hearing loss from playing percussion for over 40 years (amateur), but I’ve heard a number of less expensive systems that sound better to me. My first thought is to go for a used pair of B&Ws (CM5s?) or Vandersteens (assuming good WAF on the latter) to swap out for the Hawks. I’m on a budget, but am not above selling some of the current gear to pay for the right equipment.

I would love love to hear some suggestions or alternate diagnoses/ideas. I am not limiting myself to speakers; I’ve tried a bunch of different cables to no good effect. Analysis Plus silver cables, for example, were a disaster with this gear, for example, FYI. Thanks in advance for any sage thoughts you choose to offer. -Bruce


bheiman
Been following this thread in sympathy both as an audiophile and as a fellow drummer.  I know exactly what you're talking about when it comes to reproducing cymbals, and I feel your pain. 

Given the relatively extreme nature of the issue and the equipment involved I'd tend to think there's a problem somewhere.  My first instincts are to check the speakers and source.  I know you said music sounds ok with classical, but have you actually put your ear to the tweeters to make sure they're both working and sound ok?  With the Marantz, have you checked all the settings (i.e. Volume set to "fixed," etc.)?

Assuming all this checks out, I'd stop screwing around and immediately do these two things.  First, I'd call totem and get their thoughts.  Second, if this doesn't help I'd find another pair of speakers at your dealer (preferably Hawks) that sound good there and borrow them to see how they sound at home (or, as a poor second option I'd bring mine there).  If they sound good in your room there's very likely a problem with your speakers.

If those speakers also sound compromised versus what you heard at the dealer then we're back to the drawing board, but at least you've ruled out the speakers as the problem, which is no small thing.  Best of luck and hope this helps. 

B - My point asking about previously owned speakers was to consider whether that earlier pair might have acclimated your ear to greater brightness than the Hawks are designed to deliver.

At the same time, I tend to agree with bond manp.  Reticent/laid-back/"muffled" treble ain’t what I think of for the Hawks - auditioned; or Forests - currently owned. If you go to new speakers, how do you know you won’t experience the same issue with them?

Is there any way to drag your Hawks back to the store you bought them at and listen to them in the place (and with the same gear) where they sounded so good? That would eliminate (or not) some sort of damage being the cause.  Bring your source and anything else you can carry and it should help clarify whether it's electronics or room acoustics that are involved.  Your room description does not say "over-damped" to me.

I am very interested in reading how this works out for you and I certainly hope it does.






"....The high frequencies are uncrisp, rolled off severely, muted, and just lacking generally, especially on contemporary works (jazz, rock). I don’t hear cymbals, hi-hats, or rich, crisp snare drums (yeah, I’m a drummer). Listening to my favorite disks is a deeply disappointing experience, Though classical sounds ok to fine...."

hmmmm.... something is very wrong here IMO.

i owned both the ARROS and FORESTS (original before they dropped the Dynaudio drivers and swapped in Chi-fi ) simultaneously in a prior system , and a rolled off or muted  top-end firceither was never ever in the cards.

in fairness optimum performance in the FORESTS required bi-amping with an addition of a separate 100wpc hi-current power amp to the integrated amp, and swapping in Totem's own silver plated OCC speaker cables to match what's inside. 
I found them to be fussy with ICs and speaker cables but not so bad as you described the output.

im stumped ....

Update: (the one where I make progress, I think):

Room/Space Treatment Gurus (you know who you are): I opened up the window coverings on 100% of right wall: ~125 Sq ft. of glass is now reflecting into the room, rather than the textile window coverings that were closed over the wall. The good news: I could hear more highs. The bad news: the difference was quite small--I was reather pleased I could detect it. 

Power Conditioner (and anti-so) folks: I have now got the power amp directly in the wall, and the other gear in the power conditioner. There is no longer surge supression on a separate (Monster) power strip. Just one thick gauge power strip running off one socket of the conditioner. The other three conditioner plugs have CDP and Pre Amp and DAC in them. It's a cleaner hookup, and the difference from taking out everything (and running off the wall directly) has persisted, I think. 

Near Field People (you are wise, soix et al): I followed the advice of several of you (finally). I stuck my ears at the center of the bass element and then the tweeter on the Hawks, while listening at very moderate, then slightly louder levels to Sultans of swing. Range 1-2" from the plane of the speaker housing (or tweeter dome). I think this is a serious finding: Left tweeter almost nothing coming out, with nothing in the upper-highs, and maybe nothing in the mid-highs. a little low-highs. No distortion at all (I think this is important--I listened very closely). Right Channel: Interesting--I heard the lo-highs, mid-highs, and hi-highs--all of them, but overall the signal was very very attenuated from what I might expect. It was not the case that "if I had both speakers firing like the right one it would be great. The right tweeter was, on an absolute level, was attenuated. 

Please comment. Thanks.

I'm thinking, after the amp swap-in, I'll contact the dealer about Hawk service possibilities. I may also try sticking some other, much lesser speakers into the system to test: Axiom M3 v3. I will have a lot more data than. 

ghosthouse and others who think it's the speakers: I think we are homing in. Thanks. It could still be the Sim Audio Moon P-5/W-5. Hope not. The speaker swap-in I mentioned above should help. 


There is a pair of VMPS RM30 speakers with Auricaps in the back pages of Audio Circle VMPS.  I've had a pair and currently own an awesome pair of RM40s.  These are floorstanding speakers with a slim profile.  You can adjust he speakers to fit most any sound you desire.  The speakers set to a fairly normal level would be described as dynamic, high definition, transparent, with a great soundstage in which you can easily locate where the musician is playing.  You get a lot of speaker for the money. The pair I mentioned are over $5000 new and the seller is asking $1600.  If you live somewhat near southern California, you should contact him.  For his asking price, you can't get better sound for the money.