Jazz for aficionados

Rok, while I agree with your comments until you get to "Haden"; everything must change, or evolve, and jazz is no different, but when it changed, you remained the same. I changed, but in a different way, I liked Scotch then, and now I like orange jello.

The problem we have, is one word, and that word is "jazz"; what if we agreed to call your music "Jazz", and Haden's music "Music Music" would that satisfy this debate.

I like a lot of Charlie Hadens music, and when I listen, I do not have this raging debate as to whether or not it's jazz. While you like "jazz jazz", you also like a lot of music that's clearly "not jazz", so as we can see you like more than just "jazz", but you feel someone else has laid claim to the name of your favorite music, when in reality it's simply that music during one period of time in it's evolution. But you must realize that nobody wanted to changed your name as you went through an aging evolution; nobody wanted to change your name from "young Rok" to old Rok, or "Dwain" (God I hate that name). Imagine having to go through the rest of your life with that name because as you evolved, you couldn't keep your old name, and you had to be called "Dwain".

Is a rose by any other name still a rose? I don't think I can get any "stupider" with this point, that doesn't have a point, but maybe everyone can get my drift; call it jazz or not jazz after the change, I still like some of Charlie Hadens music.

My only point, was that bassist and drummers were good leaders. 

Roach always had a great band up until he died. He was not known to me as a sideman.

Blakey by your own words was a leader.

Mingus was a virtuoso bassist, who LED some of the greatest bands ever.

Haden led some great bands and put out a great body of work. You do yourself a great disservice to just ignore him, but as usual, that is your choice.