Tube vs Solid State


Folks,

For past few months, I have been trying to achieve best possible sound in my rig. The focus now is clearly on a improving 2 channel sound in what started as a home theater room.  

In past couple of years, I have added N10, Modwright DAC and very recently a LS36.5 linestage . The amps are Modwright KWA150SE. I am running pair of KWA150SE's in bridge mode (450Wx1) for the mighty B&W 800D2's.  While I like the sound as is, still feel something is missing. 

I have been toying with the idea of bi-amping.  One thought is to add mono tube amps to run mid's and high's and let the KWA150SE's handle the LF's. I am pursuing that seductive, slightly warm mid-range and top end that usually comes from tube amplification.  

I don't think there is any tube amp out there by itself capable of powering up bass hungry 800's. I prefer not to use a subwoofer in 2 channel setup. I listen to mostly jazz and classical music and quite sure that 800's are capable of producing adequate bass with proper amplification. 

Any feedback would be appreciated. 

Cheers! 
128x128lalitk
Not only are your speakers vicious (and tube-unfriendly) loads, as George points out above, but in the bridged mode you are using your amps will "see" speaker impedances equal to half of the already very low values he cited.  Which can't be good for the sonics of the amps, even though I note that you indicated in this 2015 thread that Dan Wright had "optimized these amps for bridged mode," whatever that may mean.  

Also, as others have alluded to there are a great many ways in which using solid state and tube amps in a biamp configuration can do more sonic harm than good.  And even more so when the speaker is inherently not tube friendly in terms of either its impedance characteristics or its power requirements.

My suggestion is that you consider trying your existing amps in a passive vertical biamp configuration, with each amp operating in stereo mode rather than bridged mode.   Your speakers have low impedances in much of the bass region, and the 250 watt/4 ohm rating of your amp in stereo mode could very conceivably be adequate, especially given that each channel of the amp would only be supplying current and power in part of the frequency range when used in that configuration.

The one caveat that occurs to me related to that configuration is that I'm not sure about impedance compatibility with your line stage.  In that configuration the line stage's output for each channel would be driving the inputs of two amplifier channels, and would therefore see a load impedance equal to half of the input impedance of each amp channel.  The input impedance of the amp is spec'd at "15K at 50Hz; 23K at 1Khz."  The LS36.5 has a specified output impedance of 110 ohms, which would seem compatible with a load impedance of 15/2 = 7.5K, but as with many tube preamps the 110 ohm figure might be considerably higher at deep bass frequencies.  That would be a question for Dan.

Also, assuming you are using balanced interconnections between the line stage and the amps you would need an XLR splitter, such as these.

In your older thread that I referenced earlier, BTW, I had advocated against a vertical biamp solution, but that was under completely different circumstances prior to your purchase of the Modwright amps.

Good luck.  Regards,
-- Al
 
"My suggestion is that you consider trying your existing amps in a passive vertical biamp configuration...."

Al, thank you for your feedback. I have already tried this, while I gain bit of better separation in mid’s and high’s, the bottom falls out a bit. The low bass frequencies are not a weighty as they are when I run the amp in bridge mode.

Secondly, the LS36.5 is configured with dual balanced outputs in parallel to accommodate bi-amping or a sub with balanced inputs.

@ct0517, I have tried all the options you suggested.

My room is fairly treated and power issues has been addressed with a pair of Audience aR6-TSSOX for digital and analog components.

It seems from rest of the feedback that KWA150SE may not be the ideal choice for 800’s. I am looking into a pair of Class D 1000W / 8 ohm amps to handle low bass frequencies. Add a electronic analog crossover to split bass and mid/high frequencies between class D and tube amps.

I hear Pass Labs SVR1 and Marchand tube or SS are among the best crossovers out there.

Thank you all for your feedback.

"My suggestion is that you consider trying your existing amps in a passive vertical biamp configuration...."

Al, thank you for your feedback. I have already tried this, while I gain bit of better separation in mid’s and high’s, the bottom falls out a bit. The low bass frequencies are not a weighty as they are when I run the amp in bridge mode.

Secondly, the LS36.5 is configured with dual balanced outputs in parallel to accommodate bi-amping or a sub with balanced inputs.
If both of the "dual balanced outputs in parallel" are driven from the same output stage within the line stage, as seems very likely, the lack of bass weight in the vertical biamp configuration could very possibly be due to the impedance compatibility concern that I cited earlier. You may want to discuss that with Dan.

If he confirms that both of the output connectors provided for each channel are driven by the same output stage, and if he indicates that the output impedance of the line stage rises significantly at deep bass frequencies (as is very common with tube line stages and preamps), you may want to consider inserting some sort of a buffer stage between the line stage and the amps, that would provide high input impedance and low output impedance, and re-trying the vertical biamp configuration.

Regards,
-- Al