Jazz for aficionados

Let’s try to see things from other perspective. Question for Orpheus and Rok, others are welcome to share their opinion too....

Do you think that jazz was influnced with music from some other part of the world?
(if somehow, the notion that has african influences is bothering you)

As for myself, I could not say for sure, but only because I have so little knowledge about african music, and having in mind that all art is ’conected’ in some way, I would not opose that thought so strongly....

Here is some great brazilian music, played by Dizzy, from 1975.....is that jazz?

Somebody could ask the question what were the influences that helped create ’brazilian’ music as we know it....
Were there by any chnace some african influences?
Could they find the way to jazz by that route?
As you can see, evertything is conected, one way or another....

Back to music....Dizzy
Album is called ’Bahiana’

https://youtu.be/PC1Y54_YR7Y
https://youtu.be/iNl-UdAUvVA

Maybe somebody should have explained some things to McCoy Tyner, as well....
Becuse, the title of this composition is 'confusing'...

'Afro Blue' with Latin Jazz All stars, album is from (think)1998.

https://youtu.be/6rqIAWSorjs

Frogman, "Body and Soul" is not "Bebop", nor is Coleman Hawkins a Bebop musician, give me a break.

Music can not, nor should it ever be approached from an intellectual stance. Why would I speak to Billy Taylor or Wynton Marsalis about Bebop? When it was the first corner of jazz I explored.

While Dizzy could be a co-founder of Bebop, Bird was numeral uno.


Don't mean to be harsh, but you have submitted food for the garbage can.

Alex, presently, we are discussing "Bebop" specifically and not jazz in general.

Rok's major complaint is when you talk about jazz currently, anything goes; it's kind of like "Mulligan stew", throw anything in the pot and call it "Mulligan stew".

Well, The Frogman is right about one thing, My Burden is Great.

Africa:

There can be two logical points of view:  

(1) Humankind started in Africa, Therefore EVERYTHING human, is of AFRICAN Origin.   I am sure some guy on some day hummed a sound, or beat on a log or the ground, in some pattern, or chanted as a group. i.e., they did something that could be considered a musical event.

According to this logic, All music made by humans since then, is of African origin.   Jazz, Classical, Chinese Opera etc..   Coltrane, Beethoven, Vatroslav Lisinski, and even the noise maker Stravinsky.   All played African music.


(2)  Things are a lot more complicated.  The type of music that arose in the various areas of the world is based of many factors.   Lets stay with Black music in the Americas.

Black folks in places such as Cuba, Haiti, Brazil and other central and south american countries were in an entirely different situation than those in North America.   Three major factors account for this.

The climate
The nature of the economy
Religion of  Colonial power
The nature of Slavery within these countries

Countries in tropical climates with slaves, where the colonial power was of the Catholic religion, made little or no attempt to assimilate slaves into the society.  They kept a lot of the things they brought from Africa, including music, family units, and some religious practices.   These things are readily apparent in these countries today.

America is, and has always been an assimilation machine.  Millions of emigrants from Europe came here speaking German, Polish, Italian, Russian, Yiddish  and God knows what else.   How often do you hear them today?  They are American now.

Same with the African slaves.  They were taught Christianity.   Had to speak English.   Sang English church music   Families that did exist were broken up.   --- No African Music.   No African language.   No African Religion.  No African families    No African anything.

And last but not least, slavery in America was a property issue, not a racial one.   You could be black and free in America.  No so in other p[laces.  I have read that almost 30% of slaves in New Orleans were held by other black folks.

Sorry for the length.

Cheers