2. amps-preamps
  3. 129105-330

ARC Ref 5se inferior to LS28?

This is what a big dealer told me the other day. Dealer speak or right on the money? Would very much like to hear opinions of the many knowledgeable ARC users on Audiogon. Thanks

4425
lostbears's avatar
lostbears
479 posts
 

IMHO what else would he say?  Unless he has a Ref 5SE you can compare and he gets a sale one way or the other.  Doesn't make him bad just a good  businessman. .

 If it is untrue, it makes him a liar. Which makes me wonder what else is he lying about? I want a dealer who will give me their honest opinion. Not someone who will say anything to make a sale. I would think twice about buying from such a dealer.

 I have heard this many times before. The LS27 was supposedly better than the Ref 3. The LS27 wasn't even better than the Ref 2 mk2. It is not even close.

 They are both built to a price point. The Ref series is much more expensive. It uses tubes in the power supply while the LS series does not. The Ref 5se is a truly superb preamp. One of the best preamps  ARC has ever made. It will be a long time before an LS preamp comes close.




keithr
950 posts
 
I agree with the others that it seems like marketing. The LS is a hybrid preamp and is going to sound very different from the fully tubed Ref series. The power supplies just don't compare.

fwiw, the LS25mk2 was the least favorite preamp that I've owned. 
4425 OP
455 posts
 
i agree. all tubes much different. as to the dealer i like him very much after doing much business. he is a salesman though and you just factor that in. maybe he really prefers a more solid state sound? 

bdp24's avatar
bdp24
4,908 posts
 

Anyone who gets on the ARC train is going to be put through this until he jumps off. Why not instead buy from a designer/company who keeps a model in the line for many years, offering occasional upgrades to the basically "correct/finished" circuit?

As an example, if one had bought a, say, Atma-Sphere MP-3 pre-amp twenty-five years ago, one could still own it, having had the occasional factory improvement made to it. Total investment? Not that much more than the MP-3's original price. The ARC owner, in contrast, would have sold his LS2 to get the New! Improved! LS15, then sold it to get the LS16, then the LS25, then LS26 (or LS17?), then LS27, with Mk.2 iterations of each. Or, jumped up to a Reference model---1, then 2, then 3, then 5. And the Atma-Sphere MP-3 is STILL more transparent than all of them! Or at least some people think so.

ARC owners get very defensive when this is brought up, and who can blame them? I met Bill Johnson in 1973, and shortly thereafter bought a complete ARC system---SP3, D51 and D75, and Tympani I (ARC distributed Magneplanar at the time). Before the capacitors were even "broken in" there were new versions of all those models. Bill was a decent engineer, but an even better businessman. I have kept my LS1, solely for it's mode switch!

pops
1,847 posts
 
+1bdp24 my first piece from ARC was the ph5 when I got back into vinyl. I was interested in a CJ to match my linestage but my dealer convinced me the ph5 is the newest and greatest from ARC huge improvement over the ph3se.  He sold both CJ and ARC at the time.

i didn't even have it broken in before the Ph 6 came out.  No complaints as the ph 5 fit my needs at the time but it made me feel like I did not get their best or certainly most current.  

MIT is the same way but even worse.  



More to discover