Jazz for aficionados

By Jove, I think she may be the real deal. Talent wise anyway. Hope she has good people around her.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwfu4lZjD3k

Cheers

Rok, the answer can be found in the fact that "Jazz Aficionados" have never said it was so; I don't think even Miles thought it was so; and we are in 100% agreement about your other comments in regard to those other albums.

While a second album would reinforce her standings, there is no doubt about this album. Only time will tell how good Ms. Salvant is, when compared to those Divas you mentioned.

Enjoy the music.

Rok, like you say, the gal need a make over; but when dem fat royalty checks start rolling in, dat's completely doable.

****SE = brilliant. KOB = brilliantly ethereal.****

I like that; and I agree. "Somethin Else" was discussed early in this thread's life and in trying to find my earlier comments about it (to no avail) I came a across a thread which asked what albums resemble KOB; SE was mentioned. IMO, it is nothing like KOB except for the shared presence of Miles and Cannon who, being such distinctive voices, can give the two records a deceptive similarity.

KOB is a concept album with its emphasis on modality and "tunes" which began as mere sketches handed to the players at the studio. Only "Freddie Freeloader" is a traditional tune being a basic twelve bar blues. I have always felt that the inclusion of that tune was a deliberate "inside" message by Miles; as if to say: "This is NOT what KOB is about".

SE is another great record; but, I am not prepared to say that it is, overall, a "better" record. The tunes are mostly standards; so, from that standpoint it is comparing apples to oranges. The playing is terrific. Miles' opening four notes in "Autumn Leaves" is a thing of beauty. Same four notes every other player who has played the tune has played. But, man, there was only one Miles; the feeling is incredible. However, to my ears,and conceptual issues aside, where KOB beats SE (handily) is in the area of cohesion: KOB sounds like a band; a band that has played together a lot. There is a very high level of player intuition; they know each other's playing in a way that helps each of them interact in a way and at a level that SE doesn't quite reach. Subtle things like at the end of Miles' solo and lead-in into Trane's solo in "So What"; the way that Jimmy Cobb, with a couple of simple hits, signals "and now, Trane!". I confess that Art Blakey has never been my favorite drummer. I find his playing a little sloppy and not propelling of the soloists enough while Cobb's is lighter and at the same time more concise and forward moving. Blakey sounds like he is on automatic pilot at times; a result of not knowing, as Cobb does, where the soloist was going next. Hank Jones, one of my favorites, is too far back in the mix and is not as much of a presence as Bill Evans is on KOB; this, in spite of the fact that Evans's playing is the epitome of "ethereal" (thanks Rockadanny). I find my attention wandering when the soloists "stretch out"; and I blame the rhythm section for that, they don't supply as much "points of interest" as does the KOB rhythm section. The reason is simple: they were assembled for the session and are not a BAND.

As always, commentary has to be put in context. These are both great records and, undoubtedly, two of the greatest. The criticisms are necessarily about subtleties that would be meaningless compared to inferior recordings. For someone who doesn't think that the concept of KOB is that strong, SE probably has more to offer with it's more traditional slant. For someone who prefers the more traditional the, arguably, superior ensemble playing on KOB is probably not enough to tip the scale. As someone once said: "God (Jazz?) is in the details". (I suspect the big guy up above won't mind that comment).

Frogman, while most of the time we agree, I consider your last post as a challenge; title this, "The Musician" vs "The Aficionado".

In regard to "modality" or "no modality", KOB lacks the intense emotion of SE; maybe that's the ethereal quality of KOB. Miles music dominates this album to such an extent, that he can be heard within each solo, making the artist secondary to the music; could that be the cohesion you refer to?

Without a doubt this maybe "MIles Davis" greatest album, but when placed up against the artists Rok referred to, and their best albums, KOB begins to slide down the totem pole. Oddly enough, those who are obsessed with KOB, would not be aware of those albums; and consequently, would not be considered jazz aficionados. While KOB is "one" of the greatest, it most certainly is not "The Greatest".

In regard to SE, "The tunes are mostly standards", while three of the tunes are standards, I consider that a putdown. Hank Jones intro on "Autumn Leaves" is so dramatic, you don't know what he's going to go into, but you know you like it because it sounds so good. This is followed by incredible solos, from Miles and Cannonball; after Miles plays the melody, Hank comes back in and gets into the heart and soul of the tune with each note on his piano. "The tunes are mostly standards" sounds like such a put down that I'm left speechless.

As I sit here trying to respond to your post, I get more and more "discombobulated"; "Art Blakey", a sloppy drummer". I can only suggest you give SE another listen, I don't know why I get the feeling you're responding to this from memory, as opposed to putting the CD on and listening to each cut, and each note as I am at the moment. While all music is subjective, I'm finding it hard to believe we're so far apart, far beyond your preference to KOB over SE, which is not hard to understand.

Enjoy the music.