2017 amps - $10K to $15K who is on your short list?

When you don’t understand how instruments and voices sound in real and how they are projected into space, you don’t understand audio.

The facts proof that many loudspeakers, amps, sources only can create a 2-dimensional stage. This means that there is less than 1 metre of stage depth.

simple question: since when stand people playing instruments and singing on the same line or only with 1 metre in depth?

This is how insane audio can be.

The great thing about voices and instruments in particularly they have a lot of diversity in sound. But when you hear to most amps and sources, they often own a very limited level in diversity in sound.

When I ask people who also work in audio; Can you tell me how we can experience emotion during listening to music?

Most have no idea, this is a main reason why many audio systems at audio shows sound a lot different compared to how music sounds in real.

Diversity in sound (layering) is the most important part what gives us humans emotion during listening to music.

Audio needs to learn how music sounds in real.

lucifersam
ASR Emitter II 2016 version .

Cool handle!
Tanks. Its on the list!


bo1972
“Your list contains many 2-dimensional amps”.

Really?
Which ones?

BTW, how did you decide who is 2D and who is 3D? it’s a pretty long list. It must have taken a while to figure out who is what?

Et al., I’m adding lots more soon.
Stand by.

My exp says the room, the speakers, and their placement, and the listening position all matter as to dimensionality. Indeed, even the wires connecting them all together matter. Isolation and power line attendance, has great merits too. Everything matters and the key is always to get everything to play well with others, respectively. This includes me, and the ‘room’.

bo1972
  says: “There is one important fact and that is that people who spend a lot of money on audio for a long time never were that happy with their system.”

I believe it runs deeper than that. Restlessness, and perennial discontentiveness point to more serious concerns. Add on greater financial ‘means’ and its gonna dig itself a very deep hole with time.

One thing which is irreplaceable here is experience. Listening to junk in one’s own home, in the main system, is substantial. Even crucial. So, despite the extreme audio nervosa candidates roaming around, I do envy their experiences, though not the trek itself.

With but very limited means, it took me many years to get routine satisfaction from my ‘then’ foremost rig. I watched as others here and elsewhere accumulated and rearranged systems much faster, chronically bringing in gear I’m pretty sure I’d have been elated to have owned.

Only curiosity begged me to deconstruct that outfit, and build one on a different format using tubes as control and amps rather than purely SS or mixed.

Moving up the audio ‘food chain’ I found there was indeed a reason why there is more expensive gear afoot. Its often better. In most respects. Not merely different takes on the same theme, though that occurs too and is IMHO, the sole caveat to this hobby..

I’m not much on the audio pilgrimage. I’m more about ‘being there’. Consequently, once arrived, I can and will dig it as is, for a pretty long time, or until things actually need replacement… ala, tubes… or from sheer boredom, tweaking what is tweakable. Footers. Wires . to some degree, perhaps. Room treatments. Otherwise, the junk I gotta plug in or keep connected, which is providing the foot tapping and knee bobing will remain in tact.

But that’s just me. This aspiration is not my ‘end all, be all’ in life.

Well, not any more. lol


stfoth
Bo=The Cooler.

ROTFLMAO



bo1972
well, OK.
Hmmm. IMO, its all smoke and mirrors. Way more different than better out there.
Trying to perfectly recreate the ‘live’ venue, or recording event, like many movies, requires my ability to syspend belief. Often.

Depth of a so called sound stage is subjective. From where to where? How deep is deep enough to gain the perspective needed to continue an illusionary presentation?

I’ve seen bands working off a 12 x 12 foot pedestal in various places. Years ago. Saw a prominent rock star sitting on a stool in a bar playing a box guitar and singing. There weren’t much depth to that situation. Although later, he and I had a couple of beers at the bar and talked some.

One rig I had began the sound stage right besides or just behind my LP, and it spanned rearward of the speakers by what I ‘imagined’ as six or eight feet.

I never got up to measure any SS I was listening to, many of which were not nearly as deep, broad, or individually spot lit as when some other recordings allowed them to be.

I could care less what the dimensions were. Suffice it that there was actually an obvious ‘illusion’ that the presentation covered geography more than laterally just in front or in rear of the speakers was fine by me.

Being enthralled by the sound takes far more than how deep or wide, or tall the depiction of the recording is while its on display in my room.

One can not fault amps alone for what one receives as the presentation. Regardless. Unless of course the electrical mating of the equipment contained in the signal line somewhere was or is poor or questionable.

Poor matching of gear electrically is the main reason for failed or lack luster sonics.

There are numerous factors to contend with in garnering the “Acquired Illusionary Reality” from the trinkets and gizmos we want to possess.

It is simply too naive to think the end product is the amps perquisite .fundamental, chore, alone.

If it were so, we could just buy some minor league speakers, pitch ‘em into the corners of whatever room, turn everything on, and prepare to recover jaw from floor!

there's way more to it than one link in the chain.

I always had the freedom and options to test and compare for almost 20 years. The first day I started to work in audio in 1998 I wanted to know why the stage and sound is what I hear.

I have done thousands of tests in audio since and I still test a lot. For a perfectionist I need to know what new products and systems do. And what the DNA is.

There is only one thing that counts. I want those products which own the best DNA in each single price level. 2nd best is only for born losers. Same about lower than 2nd best.

Audio by trial and error is one big laugh. I can proof over and over again based on facts how limited the endresults are.

It has nothing to do with personal taste. There is no single person in the world who will prefer a sound and stage what is incomplete and can create a lower level in emotion.

You need to use the same music over and over again to compare amps, sources, cables, loudspeakers, conditioners, systems, and all other parts in an audio system to compare.

It is like an addiction for me, it is never enough and I always want more and more. Creating an even higher level in quality and sound is a part of my life.

When you think and work in patterns, you can create a higher level time after time. It never stops.

Brands and products of this brand often have the same kind of DNA. These properties have an influence in the whole system.

The main reason why I stopped in 2009 to sell 2-dimensional audio were the reaction of women.

I did run an audioshop from 2007-2009. I had a big demo room. I had a 2-dimensional and also a 3-dimensional system always ready for shootout.

I learned that when the same music is being played in 3D, even women start to like audio a lot. Women have a better developed hearing compared to men. But when a man comes home with his new system, his wife is often not that interested.

Neither any 2-dimensional system will be liked after time. Not even for men. Each single 3-dimensional system will be prefered by each single person.

I had the same reactions over and over again. It was nice to see that women use the sets of their partner. Quality and emotion works for women a lot better.

When an audio system owns all the parts on which sound in being build it will be prefered by each single person.

Beside this I created so much effort by limiting smog, high freqency noise, magnetism and other parts. I also did a lot of reseach on the electricity.

Now we do many different modifications to create superior amps, powersupplies and sources.

People in audio were not able to look further. Only when you look further all the time you will find many answers and solutions to solve and improve quality and realism.

We also have ideas to use conservatorium students to show to people how voices and instruments really sound and how small and direct they are.

We want to show people how impressive an audio system can become when you work by Tru-Fi.

That music and audio is all about emotion and realism. We call it sound&vision 2.0. It proofs how much more effective it is over any audio system what has been created by trial and error.

I call trial and error in audio the level in thinking and working of a child. This is based on the fact that there is no any foundation on how the system is being created.

When you have no idea why the stage and sound is what you hear, there is no foundation at all.

For me it is very easy to explain and demo why Tru-Fi is superior to any trial and error audio system. The sound always will tell the truth. This is what you hear and what you get at the end.

It not outperforms any trial and error system by personal taste. No..... it outperforms it based on the level in emotion, details and intensity. This proofs that audio has nothing to do with personal taste.

In januari 2016 it took over 1 hour before a client of mine could proof to me that taste does not exist. It exist, but it does not garantee you a higher level in realism and a better sound.

He owned a system of 85000 euro when I met him. He owned different parts before his latest system. All his parts he choose by trial and error.

My client said: the system I own now which is being created by Tru-Fi will always outperform any system I can create by trial and error.

The sound and level I own now is so much more realistic my client said, intense and emotinal compared to any system I ever owned.

He almost only plays classical music. He said; my new system sounds like the way I experience classical live music. Many of my clienst use the word; addictive.

When an audio systems owns all the parts of Tru-Fi it creates a level in sound and stage what is so intense. You want to continue listening to music all the time.

All the systems I created since 2009, proof over and over again that they are used a lot by the cleints themselves.

The time has come to show that audio has come to a superior level in emotion and intensity that it will be used so much more than any trial and error created audio system.

The best and most convincing sound always will win in audio!

When you have no idea what the properties are, you have no idea if a combination is the right one. It always will be a gamble.

You only can make the right choice when you understand which properties you need and own.

I give you one example: I own Pass Labs monos and poweramps for over 8 years of time ( and the Pass Labs pre amp XP-20 for 2 years). The facts proof that Pass Labs is incomplete regarding Tru-Fi.

I also explained this to Desmond Harrington of Pass labs. Each Pass labs combo of power and pre proofs that the individual focus of instruments and voices are not that intimate and realistsic as in real.

You can change that by the right properties of cables, source and other parts. But......when a pre amp is superior in individual focus of instruments and voices, the level in this part is improving a lot more.

Desmond told me that the .8 series whould have a much better individual focus compared to the older series.

Almost all demoes in the world with Pass labs are done with the wrong properties in amps, sources and cables.

And proofs that people have no idea what the properties are of the products they used.

Many demoes proved that voices and instruments were way out of proportion. Beside this mistake most people have no idea how you can create a higher blacklevel and how voices and instruments gets a shape like they own in real.

I have to admitt I have to laugh a lot during shows. For me they are often like little children.

"The facts proof that Pass Labs is incomplete regarding Tru-Fi...Each Pass labs combo of power and pre proofs that the individual focus of instruments and voices are not that intimate...And proofs that people have no idea what the properties are of the products they used.Many demoes proved that voices and instruments were way out of proportion...have to admitt I have to laugh a lot during shows. For me they are often like little children."
BO1972 you must be quite a site at audio shows to be giggling in the back of the room at setups established by proven professionals in the field who are focussed with the solitary goal of making their Music Reproduction Systems sound as accurately as possible under show conditions which of course most audiophiles understand are not ideal conditions and nor do they accurately reflect the conditions most common in the homes of those who have Music Reproduction Systems. You mention all of these proofs that you have and that you giggle at "children" who do not work in Tru-Fi but I notice that you do not share your "proof" here in the group even though you have promised many times to share that proof regarding Tru-Fi in Music Reproduction Systems so until that proof is shared with those here who you instruct I am afraid that many will not believe in your proof which I think is most unfortuante for all because I do think you are on the right track in working with properties of Music Reproduction Systems.