Jazz for aficionados

I admit it.....I got sucked into a political discussion which i regret. I do not know if I contributed to political truth or not (probably not!) so you all have my apologies for kicking the tires on a subject that should not be on Audiogon! Guess we should practice 'dinner table rules',...no politics, no religion, etc...... Have a great holiday season everyone! Now, back to the music!

Heard that new jazz vocalist (Lyn Stanley) live in Atlanta a couple weeks ago and picked up the 2 latest discs (1 SACD, 1 CD); they were definitely recorded and cut for us audio-nuts. Take a listen, I was very impressed!

...'The question I have is this: Does this audience in Switzerland know who wrote this tune?? Do they think it's an original of this so-called big band'?...

As I am European I guees I should share some of my experiences. In swiss town of Montreux there is a Jazz Festival, one, if not the one, of the greatest in the world,that lasts two weeks, than not so far away in Italian town of Perugia there is Umbria Jazz festival, that lasts around 10 days, and both are full of the people, from all over the Europe and world,of course.That may not mean anything per se, but in all major towns in Europe you can find excellent jazz clubs and usually they are packed with people when ever there is a good show. Than again, I was in Nyc couple of years ago, in Jazz Standard club, Reuben Wilson,Grant Green J.R. and Godfathers of Groove were playing two nights, and the place was half empty, I even had the privilege to introduce my self with Mr.Wilson after the gig. What I want to point is that for us, people from Europe, those artists are trully greats, and the music itself is an art form, and maybe, just maybe, for americans they are only entertainers. For this reason and because of various political and race issues maybe lots of them felt better overseas since the 60's of last century. So, I would not think that 'swiss' or any other take the music for granted, and without any pre knowledge. Even more, because 'knowing' Jazz is considered to be a part of life style of 'educated' people. I am not saying that is the right way, but it might be a fact. That is certainly subject for another discussion.

Take a look at this clip. Future generations of artists and fans?

http://youtu.be/g121gvj_4aE

****How else do you expect us Unwashed to learn anything?? :)****

Well, at least you have a sense of humor about it all. Seriously, all this demonstrates the futility of trying to establish a "best". Wether it's a player, composer, recording etc., there will be always be a handful that stand above the rest as pillars of excellence. In the arts, by it's very definition, individuality is a key ingredient of excellence. So, how does one designate a "best" when there is so much individuality as part of the mix? Not possible. One can streamline the list based on level of excellence along with level of influence and then really separate the men from the boys. Re the BBC list:

First if all, I thought it was a pretty good, if incomplete, list. Sorry to hear that you had appropriated it as your own; tsk, tsk, tsk! I was impressed that you had included Gershwin. But, you copied it and left out Britten! That name alone makes the list much more authoritative; he was a true giant. The inclusion of Boulez is probably a good one. Cage and Glass? As two of the greatest? No way! Influential? Certainly; and, very. But, what is "great"? Is great someone who is highly individualistic but who's grasp of so much of what constitutes composition pales in comparison to other composers? Like orchestration skill at the highest level with a thorough grasp of, not only modern techniques, but those of the great composers from the past; while having an individualistic vision. Seems to me that the title "great" should be reserved for the very few that had it all.

"If you feel empathy for his personal outlook, you naturally feel him musically more than some other environ-mental and musical opposite
who is, in a way. beyond you." - Charles Mingus

   

****The question I have is this: Does this audience in Switzerland know who wrote this tune?? Do they think it's an original of this so-called big band?

That's the danger of this type of thing. Young folks will think Jazz started the day they first heard Jazz. They might even think wow, what a tune, and have never heard Dizzy play it. Food for thought.****

What danger? And why "danger"? While I disagree with the mindset that anyone would think that it all started when they first heard it, why is it not simply a good thing that they hear it at all? That would be the beginning of the education. It has to start somewhere; no? I think that as much of a "danger" is dogmatism and the kind of musical fascism that dictates that the music cannot be an extension of the past, with new relevance and new relevant players (not simply "noise makers") and composers.

BTW, while I was not there (obviously) I would bet my Columbia 6Eye KOB, that before Ponomarev counted off the tune that night in Switzerland, the audience heard something like this:

"And now, a tune by one of the greatest jazz musicians of all time: "ANIT", by the great Dizzy Gillespie; arranged by Benny Golson"

Maybe we shouldn't worry so much about the young folks.

Zephyr24069:

******Guess we should practice 'dinner table rules',...no politics, no religion, etc.******

What a boring place that would be. And 'Audiogon' could use an infusion of new thinking / subjects. I don't think there is much left to say about "Wire".

Cheers