Directionality of wire

muzzleblast                                          6 posts08-13-2017 8:16am

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/cable-directionality-2

I think we’re now on the wrong discussion thread... time to pile on...

Hog wash!

Cable directionality

I’m sure this has been discussed before but I missed it, so what is all this stuff with the direction of voltage flow with cables? Every cable you see any more has a little arrow on it. Since the signal is AC and travels one direction as much as it travels the other, what difference could this possibly make. I have talked to numerous co-workers (all electrical engineers) and they ALL say this is the biggest bunch of bunk they have ever seen. Since I am the only "Audiophile", I try to keep an open mind(I’m also the odd man out being mechanical.) Skin effect, resistance, capacitance, etc. are true issues. You pass power through a wire and it creates a magnetic field. You do deal with impedence and synergy with the driving source. How about a few technical answers from the audiophile community.

 bigtee
                                                                                08-25-2002 11:44pm

The signal is not traveling in one directing and then traveling in the other direction.
The signal does not travel back and forth from the source to the load.

The signal travels down the wire in one direction from the source to the load in the form of an electromagnetic wave.
Source >>>>>> load.
https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/directional-cables
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Most of the responses to the thread, you linked, use the falsehood that the signal is traveling back and forth from the source to the load. If this theory is the basis for the for the argument of wire directionality then it is easy to see why, imo, their theory works wire can not be directional. But that is not the actuality of how a signal travels down a wire.

If you believe the signal is not traveling back and forth from the source to the the load, (source > < > < > load), but rather in one direction from the source to the load, (source >>>>> load), then the why or how a wire can, could be, directional could be plausible.
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Even if one wishes to refer to current as the "signal," since current is alternating we only need to worry about the current (signal) when it’s traveling toward the component or, in the case of speaker cables, when the current is traveling toward the speakers. The other half of the time, when the current is traveling in the opposite direction, we can ignore the "signal" since its effects are inaudible. So, obviously fuses located where AC enters the component and where AC enters the speakers, could be directional. As could the cables. If directionality is real. To summarize, the argument that directionality can’t exist in an AC circuit is pure fabrication, a ploy, a nothing burger. 🍔

Geoffkait 8-13-2017
Even if one wishes to refer to current as the "signal," since current is alternating we only need to worry about the current (signal) when it’s traveling toward the component or, in the case of speaker cables, when the current is traveling toward the speakers. The other half of the time, when the current is traveling in the opposite direction, we can ignore the "signal" since its effects are inaudible.

When "the current" is traveling away from the component in one of the two conductors it is traveling toward the component in the other of the two conductors.

And it is **always** traveling through the input circuit of the component in one direction or the other, aside from the brief instant during each cycle at which the applied voltage crosses zero, and the direction changes.

I would not press this explanation as being supportive of wire (or fuse) directionality.

Regards,
-- Al

almarg
Geoffkait 8-13-2017
"Even if one wishes to refer to current as the "signal," since current is alternating we only need to worry about the current (signal) when it’s traveling toward the component or, in the case of speaker cables, when the current is traveling toward the speakers. The other half of the time, when the current is traveling in the opposite direction, we can ignore the "signal" since its effects are inaudible."

When "the current" is traveling away from the component in one of the two conductors it is traveling toward the component in the other of the two conductors.

And it is **always** traveling through the input circuit of the component in one direction or the other, aside from the brief instant during each cycle at which the applied voltage crosses zero, and the direction changes.

>>>>That’s precisely my point! That’s why - if wire is directional per se - the cable manufacturer must control the process to ensure that both wires are placed in the cable correctly. You know, since BOTH wires will exhibit directionality. Assuming directionality is real. Which is in fact what manufacturers do, control the process. Hel-loo! Fortunately once you have a process in place the rest is easy. For a fuse it’s even simpler to explain (one can only hope) since there’s only one wire. Thus, you cannot use the example of AC circuits per se to disprove wire or fuse directionality. Please note: I never said this explanation proved or supported wire directionality. What I’m saying is simple but quite different - you cannot use the tired old AC circuits argument to DISPROVE wire directionality. Capish?

What on God's earth makes anyone think that directionality in wire can even be heard in audio signals @ KHz frequencies? If its just pure copper wire- and uniform in make, thickness, etc. across a fixed length, its a conductor, and it will conduct both ways the same- assuming all things are equal in the wire and in the "inputs" (i.e. terminations) on each end of said wire.

Having said that, I have seen scientific evidence where in the Southern Hemisphere that electrons flow in the opposite direction than they flow in the Northern Hemisphere.  Obviously, impacted by proximity to the magnetic poles of the earth.  That said, directionality is possible in the farthest parts of the northern and southern hemispheres, and non-directionality is best observed nearest the equator.  I live in Texas and closer to the equator than many in US, and likely this is the reason I don't see any hints of directionality in my stereo IC's and speaker wiring.