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My rant; we don't know what we don't know

Please don’t read this unless you are both bored and getting frustrated with the upgrade merry-go-round. Please don’t flame me if you think I am full of crap. Just stop reading. I am going to post this here in amps/preamps because I think it applies here just a bit more than in any of the other forums, though it still applies to all of them. I don’t pretend to know all that much about amps and preamps when it comes to circuit variations and designs. But one thing I do know after forty years in this hobby is that there is so much utterly painful hogwash bullsh*t owner-biased flotsam/diatribe/detritus utterly spewed out by mostly well-intentioned enthusiasts that it has to make any of the wiser folks in the industry cringe. My message to all of you-98% of what you read in this forum about the qualities of an amp or preamp in this forum will not help you obtain better sound. If you have a good amp or preamp and you feel the itch to upgrade, chances are, again, 98%, that the amp or preamp you presently have is not the impediment to your achievement of great sound. It sounds cliche’ as hell and most of you don’t to hear it or accept it, but the devil is in the details-room, component matching, speaker positioning, grounding, resonance control, room treatments, and it goes on and on. I am not in the industry and I have no affiliation of any type with anyone in the industry but I know from experience that 25 years ago I thought I had it all figured out; I posted on forums about my enthusiasm for this amp or that preamp and today I would cringe at all that misguided pablum that I mostly regurgitated from things that I had read but did not really understand and things that I thought I knew that I now know I do not. If you post here because you have nothing else better to do and it adds to your enjoyment of the hobby, fine. But if you rely upon others’ posts for finding just the right piece of gear that will suddenly part the Red Sea, spread the clouds and open up rays of sunlit audio-nirvana to suddenly shine it’s grace on your head and ears, you’re deluded. This is why Audio Note gear can sound amazing when set up properly in one room and gear from Sugden and Harbeth (just randomly for example) can sound amazing in another and on and on. This why those who have read Jim Smith’s book and re-read it and implemented as many of his tips have nothing but great things to say and those that have had him "tune their room" are amazed. We have a cultural abyss amongst us and it is the internet. Find a REAL person over the age of 50 who has been in the business for 30 years or so and talk face to face with a REAL PERSON! Listen with your own ears. If it means a five-six hour drive, pick a weekend on your calendar, make an appointment, and get off your couch and into your car to go visit a REAL PERSON. Thanks I feel better now. Those that want to claim that one amp is better than another or that one preamp is the answer to the search for great sound will, obviously, continue to post here with their unequivocal and yet baseless opinions and I will continue to skim and skip 98%, check that, 99%, of the posts here. And to those who might respond with the question, "why do you spend time here and ignore your own advice to interact with real people?", my response is that I am trying and succeeding at walking the walk.
128x128fsonicsmith
folkfreak's avatar
folkfreak
1,149 posts
 
In general I find much to agree with in your observations and in particular I get very concerned as you do with those who constantly pursue major component (amp, source, speaker etc) changes in search of some elusive nirvana. 

The truth is it takes months (years even) to optimize a system around any component change. Synergy in everything is key and dropping a new component in will completely disrupt what you have before. Sure you'll hear differences but until you've spent many hours listening, adjusting and maybe even changing supporting tweaks how do you know you have the measure of the new component?

For this reason take any review with a pinch of salt -- especially if you are not familiar with their room and supporting accessories. 

For example in my case it's taken me more than five years to begin to understand how to set up and get the most from my speakers and I'm still not certain they don't have more to give. With each adjustment in my system I need to make changes elsewhere as I realize each compromise I'd been making to ameliorate a prior euphony now needs to be unwound.

Truly this is a process of constant experimentation and many small steps -- which is what I think makes it most enjoyable for many of us 
gs5556
769 posts
 
Let's not broad-brush here. Those who post: "Brand X speaker owners: what amp works for you?" are inviting experience opinions which are not by definition baseless. But for someone to jump in who doesn't know those speakers or amplifiers and spew a rant of what you should really really be listening to... well, I hear ya.
timlub
1,649 posts
 
In general, I agree with you.  I'm old and have been in or around this industry for 35 years.  Alooooong time ago I learned that once you enter the "state of the art" territory,  gear sounds more alike than different and in extreme high end,  you are always splitting hairs.  It kills me that one guy says that one piece just "blew away" another very fine piece of gear, when in reality there was the slightest difference in how one presented music from the other or a sight difference in midbass warmth ect.  I understand also what you say about biased opinions.... I've been speaker building for 39 years now,  I understand speakers.  It kills me to give solid advice to someone and then I read comment after comment of absolutely terrible advice and many times flat out wrong. Misguided pablum I think you called it.  Rather than getting into arguments,  I typically just bow out, but I find it aggravating.  I don't mind different opinions or perspective at all,  but you need to at least be giving correct info. As you say,  it really happens in every forum category.
audiotroy's avatar
audiotroy
1,621 posts
 
Fsonics,

Why do I post? Over 30 years in the trenches actual experience, system matching, system setup, comparitive anaylsis.

My company has one of the largest collections of A/V gear in the NY Tri state area, because people generally want different things.

The one brand is perfect for everyone mentality in our opinion is severely limited.

That is for example why we sell three reference speakers, Legacy Aeris, Paradigm Persona, KEF Blades, you know what they are all amazing and all different.

System setup is just that matching and figuring out what matches well with what other stuff, when many times on these forums people don’t listen to some of what we tell them I just cringe.

Way too many posters with a thumbs up in agreement without asking if product x will work in customers room with matching equipment etc.

Too many hobbists that do not really offer any good advice.

Sometimes all you need to do is just change a set of cables or add a power conditioner or add a vibration base. Simple things.

The devil is in the details and figuring out synergy.

Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ
gdhal's avatar
gdhal
1,641 posts
 
I agree in principal with what the OP has posted. How true it is that the room itself and all other seemingly insignificant details do matter.

I think we could all agree, however, that "It’s an obsession, but it’s pleasing".

EDIT:

Would like to include a Donald Rumsfeld quote as it seems apropos (to the thread title).

"Reports that say that something hasn’t happened are always interesting to me, because as we know, there are known knowns; there are things we know we know. ... But there are also unknown unknowns – the ones we don’t know we don’t know."
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