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Finding the 'weakest link' when upgrading?

Being able to find the weakest link when upgrading is really, really important.
Otherwise a different new component may never really be able to show how it is better. Since the other ’weak’ component(s) is(are) masking the new components better sound.

This is a difficult problem.

My best example is not exactly about the least sound quality, but it may show something about it.
I upgraded a good portion of my equipment all at once when I retired. And I still had in my system an old DAC I bought used. When I received most of the new components (including new preamp, new amp, new speakers and a new turntable and cartridge), I was comparing my old DAC with the new one. And found no sonic difference. I mean I tried every way I could and could not hear any difference between them/ So either I just wasted $25,000 for nothing or?? I was very frustrated.
Anyway, after three weeks I got another new bit which had to be ordered and built
.
When I plugged in the phono box, an epiphany and a flood ot tears.. My $25,000 of new equipment really was better. Since the phono box sounded glorious, thus it made it clear all the rest of the system WAS NOT holding back the new DAC. That new DAC was actually just not any better than my old one. And I returned it.

And unless I just happened to acquire that new phono box a week later, I would have been stumped why the new DAC (which was praised to the skies by both Stereophile and TAS) was not doing better.
I was seriously bummed and confused about wasting a ton of money... until I played the new phono box.

Now it was kind of odd that the two DACs, one, used for $250 )it’ original list price was $1,000) and the other $2,400 and 12 years newer) could sound so alike. But chance happened. (And toss in the official guru magazine praise with it all)
==================================================================

Anyway, how do we find the right part to upgrade? Since making the wrong choice can leave one in the same boat I was in back in my example? (at least until I got the phono box)

I do not have an answer. and I ask.. does anyone?
For me it is just kind of a sixth sense, with little real science to it.

In general I have been kind of lucky.
But how do I know I have managed well?

I do not know.
It has been better more often than not.
(Though I have made a few really terrible choices over many years now and then. Costly choices)

Anyway, my question is how do you make the choice of what to upgrade?
How do you know or decide which is you weakest component?

And do you agree finding the weakest component is really important in the path of upgrading, or one might be making expensive mistakes buying gear, or trying gear? (which may really be great, yet you cannot hear it due to some other weak links in the chain? And though I hate to say so, this weak link may even be cables, or powercords or even the AC from the wall*.

*(but please do not get into a big theory arguments about interconnects and powercords and power conditioners.) Stick to the main topic of knowing how to find the weakest link.
elizabeth
elizabeth OP
6,726 posts
 
Thanks Ivan, great posts.
The way I consider ’the weakest link’ as a bottleneck.
All the other bits could sound better, but the weakest link is holding the rest back, since the bottleneck is at the peak of it’s performance. And if it is replaced with a better bit of kit, the whole rest of the system can move up, to what is the next block of the component which is doing all it can, and then is the one holding back the other components, which if given a chance, could sound better.

And to willemj Agree about speakers.
Disagree about CD playback being superior to vinyl.
I do confess I have an expensive LP playback setup: Bought here on AgoN’ Kuzma Stabi/Stogi S with a Dynavector 17D3 to the also bought here: ARC SP-15 phono.
The closest I get to that using CD is a Sony SCD777ES.
My LP playback is definitely better. Though i do play CDs for ease of use. (I typically use a eBay $40/$80 max 5 disc changer( (most changers sound like doggie doo. I found a few models I can enjoy) to my DAC. The sound is slightly less than the Sony SCD777ES playing CD, but good enough for everyday use. ’(saving’ the Sony for as long as I can) If I spent a bit on perhaps a yggdrasil my CD playback might improve? I would never spend more than a few grand on a CD playback DAC.

mattmiller's avatar
mattmiller
1,180 posts
 
" how do we find the right part to upgrade?"

This is all about experience, time, listening and talking to those who know, learning.

When I build a system I start with speakers first (because these are what we literally connect with) after that the amplifier (this is key for sound quality tubed or not, and ability to drive speakers properly) then a pre amp (possibly tubed or not depending on tone of sound desired) I save the best for last really...a great digital front end (DAC/music server/player) or a fantastic turntable/arm/cartridge with a topnotch phono stage. The source is of course super important as are cables that don’t color or add anything unwanted like darkness or brightness to the overall sound. Finally Ill add that the room your system is in means a hell of a lot...tiny system in BIG room = no fun and vise versa. Very important to get the system dialed in to the room so it feels like the room is alive! Hard to get right.

Matt M
timlub
1,649 posts
 
In My Experience, the components tend to make a difference in the following order:
Speakers
Preamp
Amplifier
Table, Arm, Cartridge
Cables
Dac...... 
I have found that once you get to a certain level in Dacs that there is not near as much difference as in any of the other components..... Maybe cables. 
Yes,  there are differences in Dacs and differences in Cables,  but there is a point where once the reach a certain level,  the differences are minor or a matter of taste.  Maybe the way to put it is..... There is less difference between 2 well designed Dacs at say $500 and $3000 or $4000 that there would be between a $500 Preamp, Amp or speakers vs that $3000 plus component. 

I suspect if I remember right you were using an old Adcom DAC?... Maybe not,  but I suspect that your Dac was of the level that the differences were not night and day.  I have built 3 Dacs with 3 different Dac chips,  they all perform admirably,  they don't sound the same, but they are all very good performers. 
cd318
404 posts
 
Upgrading can be a difficult, expensive, time consuming path which eventually leads you back to where you started from.

However there is a generally accepted hierarchy worth bearing in mind.

The listening room plays a big part. Some rooms are just more lively than others.

The recording / remastering can also make a huge difference. There are an awful lot of digital recordings that have fallen victim to the crude dynamic compression used in making music sound fuller/punchier through small loudspeakers as found in radios, TVs etc

If one HiFi component significantly measures poorly for distortion, it is the loudspeaker. This is where you need to focus your attention because this is the area where everyone can hear differences. Hardly surprising since the sheer variety of design can be bewildering. Different cone materials, cabinet designs, drive unit size, crossover decisions, etc etc. 

The other major area where you can find vast improvements is in the area of vinyl playback. Once you move past something like the Pro-ject Classic to something like the new Technics decks (various 1200s) improvements start to rapidly diminish. There's only so much improvement in speed stability and resonance control and tracking performance that remains possible.

Valve amplification is seen by some as a mere cosmetic difference but it may be one you prefer.

As for the rest, amplifiers, CD players, DACs, cables, etc there is little or no supporting evidence that they yield any sonic differences as the late Peter Aczel told us repeatedly for decades.

It is a shame that you had to find out the truth about DACs for yourself. However it us reassuring that your ears were telling you the truth.









 
pc997
43 posts
 
#1 Speakers
It gets harder after that.
#2 Analog components (power/pre amps, capacitors, tubes - if equipped, power supplies, etc)
#3 Digital components (digital side of DACs, CD transports, network streamers, etc)
#4 Interconnects (not sure if these would make any difference but according to many, they do)

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