2. misc-audio
  3. 133937-1445

Finding the 'weakest link' when upgrading?

Being able to find the weakest link when upgrading is really, really important.
Otherwise a different new component may never really be able to show how it is better. Since the other ’weak’ component(s) is(are) masking the new components better sound.

This is a difficult problem.

My best example is not exactly about the least sound quality, but it may show something about it.
I upgraded a good portion of my equipment all at once when I retired. And I still had in my system an old DAC I bought used. When I received most of the new components (including new preamp, new amp, new speakers and a new turntable and cartridge), I was comparing my old DAC with the new one. And found no sonic difference. I mean I tried every way I could and could not hear any difference between them/ So either I just wasted $25,000 for nothing or?? I was very frustrated.
Anyway, after three weeks I got another new bit which had to be ordered and built
.
When I plugged in the phono box, an epiphany and a flood ot tears.. My $25,000 of new equipment really was better. Since the phono box sounded glorious, thus it made it clear all the rest of the system WAS NOT holding back the new DAC. That new DAC was actually just not any better than my old one. And I returned it.

And unless I just happened to acquire that new phono box a week later, I would have been stumped why the new DAC (which was praised to the skies by both Stereophile and TAS) was not doing better.
I was seriously bummed and confused about wasting a ton of money... until I played the new phono box.

Now it was kind of odd that the two DACs, one, used for $250 )it’ original list price was $1,000) and the other $2,400 and 12 years newer) could sound so alike. But chance happened. (And toss in the official guru magazine praise with it all)
==================================================================

Anyway, how do we find the right part to upgrade? Since making the wrong choice can leave one in the same boat I was in back in my example? (at least until I got the phono box)

I do not have an answer. and I ask.. does anyone?
For me it is just kind of a sixth sense, with little real science to it.

In general I have been kind of lucky.
But how do I know I have managed well?

I do not know.
It has been better more often than not.
(Though I have made a few really terrible choices over many years now and then. Costly choices)

Anyway, my question is how do you make the choice of what to upgrade?
How do you know or decide which is you weakest component?

And do you agree finding the weakest component is really important in the path of upgrading, or one might be making expensive mistakes buying gear, or trying gear? (which may really be great, yet you cannot hear it due to some other weak links in the chain? And though I hate to say so, this weak link may even be cables, or powercords or even the AC from the wall*.

*(but please do not get into a big theory arguments about interconnects and powercords and power conditioners.) Stick to the main topic of knowing how to find the weakest link.
elizabeth
Ag insider logo xs@2x
cleeds
2,065 posts
 
mikexxyz
When you read the recommendation to “trust you ears” what they really mean is trust your eyes.
No, we mean trust your ears. It's as simple as that, even though that notion upsets some of the measurementalists here.
geoffkait's avatar
geoffkait
14,147 posts
 
mikexxyz
I love the cognitive dissonance routinely expressed here.

>>>>>Well, I’ll be a monkey’s uncle! You usually don’t see pseudo skeptics accusing the other side of cognitive dissonance. Wow!

mikexxyz
When you read the recommendation to “trust you ears” what they really mean is trust your eyes. Once you see the 0.25” thick CNC milled front panel and silky smooth control knobs, you’ll know which component sounds better. And if you ask the “trust your ears” crowd to do a blind test to pick out the component that so obviously sounds better, you’ll get a litany of excuses as to why listening tests are not a valid way to judge audio - LOL.

>>>>>Yeah, right. Maybe if you just fell off the turnip truck yesterday. Again, you don’t see pseudo skeptics accusing audiophiles of using listening tests.

mikexxyz
We were debating the merits of DACs on another forum, one that is more engineering focused. The most strident proponents of DACs sounding different have a commercial interest in designing and selling them. I’m sure that doesn’t happen here.

>>>>I see what you mean - the ones who should know more about them?

mikexxyz
I read recently that in today’s world opinion carries as much weight as facts. So, as long as you don’t work for Boeing, GE (jet engine or medical divisions), United Technologies, etc, you can believe that fuses have a direction, wire needs to be “burned in”, and that the USB spec for Bit Error Rate is inadequate for audio. No real harm done. Audio is a hobby after all and all you are wasting is money.

>>>>>Oopsy, daisy! There’s that cognitive dissonance beamin’ down at ya. Thanks for the heads up!
almarg's avatar
Ag insider logo xs@2x
almarg
8,673 posts
 
Hi Elizabeth,

One thing that hasn’t yet been mentioned which I’ve found to often be helpful in identifying a weak link, or at least in narrowing down the possibilities, is the use of a good quality pair of headphones. Despite the fact that headphone listening is of course inherently a very different experience than listening via speakers, I have nevertheless found that comparing results between what I hear from the various speakers I’ve had over the years and what I have heard from my very revealing Stax electrostatic headphones can be very helpful in determining whether a perceived issue is being introduced by some combination of the amp, speaker, and room, or by something further upstream.

Beyond that, in addition to doing listening comparisons to the extent possible I do a lot of research of relevant experiences that are reported by others, such as the audiophiles who post here and in other forums as well as reviewers. In doing so I apply grains of salt in each case to the extent I feel is appropriate based on my knowledge of the particular commentator. And I also rely on my technically-based instincts to the extent I consider appropriate in each particular case.

Best regards,
-- Al

mikexxyz
48 posts
 
@geoffkait - I see that you’ve given me the benefit of the doubt by calling me a “pseudo” skeptic. No need.  I’m a real skeptic. ;-)
itsjustme
91 posts
 
A very few comments.

1. I really like the headphone idea - if one has good headphones and a good headphone amp, which can a) be modest in cost and b) have no room interactions.

2. While this will spark more debate, i do believe that speakers are the biggest contributors to distortion, and that amps, in the last 20 years, have progressed a TON.  I hear what was said above and still think sources - whether a DAC or a TT/tonearm/cart/setup/prayers - is next. Don't take offense at the prayers part, getting a TT set up is HARD. I would suspect most are not.  If a DAC properly re-clocks i don't buy the importance of a CD transport, and never heard it (once re-clocked, without - its a form of analog time-base distortion and very, very real).

3. Putting aside strange interactions, swapping one item at a time is the only way to really tell.  This demands that you truly patronize, loyally, a good retailer who will let you do this. You will pay more. It will be worth it. (unless the journey and the pain are the point of the effort...)

Have fun.

G



More to discover