Isolation stands: snakeoil?

@nandric,

Amen brother!

OP and many others are stuck in this loop instead of giving it a try. That’s why we are coming across more and more posters like this 😉

In order to get to the bottom of turntable isolation stands, one needs look to..............."the bottom".

Bottom meaning what are they standing, sitting, resting on?

Lets assume we have two rooms

1) Two identical turntable stands, 2) two same audio kits and 3) two same rooms (3- highly unlikely but used to reinforce the example)

Now one room has a concrete floor, the other is a suspended wood floor.

Findings will be either this <--------- or ---------> that.

Just saying. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

some of these forum threads can go 30, 60, 70 + posts, + pages, before the dreaded loop mentioned above is realized.

********

Audiophiles have been known to go to great lengths to deal with the suspended floor issue.
This paves the way to higher prices (and mark up) by the stand makers.

Okay here’s what’s going on. I have a MoFi StudioDeck which has sprung feet built in. The turntable is sitting on the top shelf of a Pangea Vulcan rack which was selected for being cheap as opposed to being especially well regarded for audio performance ($150 with extra shelf). I have not bothered to to perfectly level the rack’s feet so there is some play / wobble if disturbed. I have leveled the turntable obviously.

The rack and turntable are sitting outside of my listening room. A set of balanced interconnects run from the pre in the rack, under the room door, across the floor and into my amps which shot between my speakers.

Since the turntable is placed outside of the listening room, I expect it will only pick up highly attenuated sound from the speakers (sound passing through walls / cracks around door edges, etc). Obviously it can still be effected by floor-borne vibrations, street noise, air conditioner noise, etc and so on. Also, having my system outside of my listening room is annoying.

Every time I add something to TT chassis to improve suspension or sturdiness of it, I get sonic benefits. I don't like to spend a fortune on these and I don't dig onto that yuppy market of cool toys, but I experiment to position and settle right. Some manufacturers are perfecting some so so.
Good feet even from another better quality turntable on lower quality turntable brings positive and audible sonic benefits just like differences in sound between 2 grand pianos for instance.

I think the issues with most things deemed "Snake Oil" is with the terminology used to promote each particular brand of snake oil.

e.g. "this gadget reduces (or eliminates) vibration"

What kind of vibration?
- airborne vibrations
- floor vibrations
- arm vibrations
- cartridge vibrations
- TT vibrations
- vinyl vibrations
- stand vibrations
- etc...

But the "unsuspecting audiophile" buys the said gadget, only to proclaim it is useless and therefore it must be "snake oil"

As for

But here’s the thing: most turntables, especially decent ones, have vibration control measures built into them via footers and various construction techniques.

The vibration control measures applied in the vast majority of turntables is only partially effective and only addresses a very limited range of vibration issues actually present in the interface between the shelf and the TT.

It is only the very best TT’s that offer the type of "vibration control" most people are seeking - i.e. total elimination. Even then they require a substantial rack or shelf as a foundation

Complete vibration control is a product of ...
- Good TT design techniques e.g.
...Sound absorbing feet (an over simplification),
...foot positioning
...Platter/plinth rigidity
...bearing design and materials
...Arm/headshell design
...The use of sound absorption materials
...The use of "acoustically inert" materials/techniques
...Employing vibration control throughout the design

- Good equipment rack design (including wall mount shelves)
...good support for shelving components
...The use of sound absorption frame materials/techniques
...The use of sound absorption shelving materials/techniques

- Good individual shelf design (i.e. within a rack)
...e.g. the use of a "sandwich" design for each shelf

So, before you splurge on that next vibration "fix"
- look at the claims of the gadget manufacturer
- ensure you actually have the problem they claim to address.

It’s a bit like buying a hammer and then using it to hammer home nails - it works, but it will never achieve that really strong joint.

WRT:

Some isolation products and turntable footers, primarily those using soft materials, can be very effective at eliminating vibrations entering the component from the rack/stand

The use soft materials can be very effective, I use them myself, however it has been my experience that using "too much of a good thing" can actually deaden the sound, i.e. the sound becomes less vibrant
- so apply them wisely

WRT:

OP and many others are stuck in this loop instead of giving it a try

Granted, giving it a try is one option, but can lead to the proclamation "it’s snake oil" if it does not meet expectations and it can get expensive

I will agree there are a lot of vibration control products out there that may assist in the reduction of certain vibrations.

But how to gauge their effectiveness is the real challenge
- first you have to understand the "root cause" of YOUR specific "problem".

Regards - Steve