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The Method of Tuning

System Playback has been evolving ever since the first stereos came out. Folks who have success can’t imagine listening to a system that has not been tuned, folks who haven’t been as successful in their listening tend to go off on their "snake oil" rants. People who buy from the "Recommended Component" list have their Plug & Play approach. The guys using measuring have their camp certainly, and there’s several other audio types out there that have their beliefs to add to the mix. Who’s correct? Well if we can remove our personal egos from this question, they (we) all are correct. The approach that you take as a listener is as legitimate as the next guys, to you. We try pushing our particular belief system on others because we are passionate about it. We have our likes and dislikes and we also have our own reasons why something does work or our blames why it doesn’t. The audiophile world has as many chapters as religious believers has denominations. It’s just the way our minds are built, you grew up on skippy, you peter pan, and you jiff. The audiophile world forgets sometimes just how many opinions and beliefs there really are, until they meet up on places like these audio forums and begin to mix this big bowl of ingredients together.

I’ve started this thread so I can share what I have learned through watching all these mixers turned on and being stuck in the bowl with each other and also from the point of view of someone who has "Tuned" many thousands of you, and have picked up on your own personal developments as masters of your own systems. So before we get going let me tell you something important. No one on the planet of listening "does" audio the way you do. You are unique, and you are a specialist when it comes to your audio adventure. You are all a salesman, because you want others to have that same level of success you enjoy. Audio reviewers, recording producers, component designers and end users are all in the same boat. You might have one or the other on a higher level than the rest, but that really has little relevance when your sitting there with your system and it’s just you and it.

What I would like to do with this thread is level the playing field and talk to you about the oldest technology in all of music (both playing & replaying). Tuning is the most basic and the most advanced technology in making fundamentals and harmonics work in support of each other and every single one of you (us) Tune. We may want to call it something else that sounds more HEA (high end audio) ish, but no matter what we choose to call it, it’s all about taking the audio variables and making them work together. This is what I have been doing all of my personal and professional life. This is also what you have been doing ever since you started to play or playback music.

Just some ground rules for this thread.

First have fun. No one gets anywhere in music if their not enjoying it. If your a sour puss, don’t be surprised if we call you out as one. Personally I don’t mind or care if your a sour puss or not, but speaking for myself, I only have so much time in the day, and if this thread gets too sidetracky & tacky I’ll have better things to do, like making music money, which is a ton of fun.

Second I’m a designer/manufacturer. I am Michael Green of RoomTune and Michael Green Audio. I would imagine over the years 10,000-15,000 Agoners have used my products, maybe more maybe less, maybe only 2 people here have bought some of my stuff. The point is we sell audio products and if someone happens to buy them from this thread don’t get all bent out of shape, sales happen. Also if other designers come up and share their ideas, again try not to get all bent out of shape. Every single one of you are going to have and or get ideas from this thread or about this thread, or about the length of my hair (lol). As far as I am concerned everyone who has a stereo system has a product they want to sell, either physical or intellectually. So? It’s all part of the same soup as far as I am concerned.

Third I and others who come to this thread are free to post long posts. Some topics are not one sentence topics, and this will probably be the case here simply because we will be talking all things audio. And I should throw this in, let me the OP decide if something is off topic.

And last, if I disappear don’t take it like I don’t care. I’m a busy son of a gun and sometimes need a week or 2 to get caught up. Lately I’ve been posting and boring you a lot up here, but when the bell rings for me I’ve got to answer. I work on the US during the day and overseas during the night so that only leaves room for cat naps at best. Everyone here is important and I respect that, and I apologize in advance for my tardiness at times.

I’m ready for some fun are you?

Michael Green

www.michaelgreenaudio.net

128x128michaelgreenaudio
michaelgreenaudio's avatar
michaelgreenaudio OP
643 posts
 

Hi Grannyring

Room correction has come a long way over the past 20 or so years. All of the past attempts have added a little more to the solution. Lyngdorf and some of the now next generation products are going to become the norm and very quickly. It's literally a new generation of listening. As I have done the steps physically technology has also been taking the steps for you to be in control. Some folks are going to go the physical route for the sake of purity. There are simply some tones and structures to the music that you can't really do without the real materials and designs to do it with. But, think of all the guys out there that have bought into HEA and have never had the chance to get the most out of it. Seriously almost every one has gone through this, and sadly defended "not the best of sound" forever.

I say this and truly believe it "we are experiencing the new audiophile revolution in real time".

Michael Green

www.michaelgreenaudio.net

clearthink
672 posts
 
michaelgreenaudioRoom correction has come a long way over the past 20 or so years. All of the past attempts have added a little more to the solution.

I would say that this is partially true what we have now is a system known as Tru-Fi but even that has been enhanced with the discovery of the ICSS factor and this allows those working with Music Reproduction Systems to not practice trial and error modifications, adjustments, and enhancements but to apply properties of the actual components contained within the system to develop realistic reproduction including soundstage of realistic proportion. Those not working with Tru-fi are like children who cannot understand what they are doing within their  Music Reproduction Systems because they lack the understanding of properties that are part of the Tru-Fi experience I am currently working with a pattent attorney so that my ICSS factor knowledge, science and practices do not conflict, impinge or violate preexisting rights that may somewhat overlap with ICSS and of course I will keep all here posted.  
michaelgreenaudio's avatar
michaelgreenaudio OP
643 posts
 

Now, if I can address this statement...

"Your solutions, as viewed online, unfortunately use these additional devices which are “banned” for some of us 😁"

HEA is heading quickly into this new chapter. I believe there is no way, or should we want to, stop it. What this also does though is change the landscape of component and speaker design. For many years HEA has been designing products on a "Fix it" basis. With the new paradigm some of the old theories and maybe even myths get to fly out the window, that's the part I'm mostly interested in. Follow me on this.

On a moving planet, subject to the four fundamental forces of physics, there really are no such things as "inert", "isolation", "discrete" and others in the truest sense. These are terms that HEA designers have thrown at you for quick fix compulsive sales. If you setup a test lab right now with me we would discover, and fast, that "everything affects everything else". Your not going to isolate your component from this planet, because your on this planet. You can dampen your signal or you can tune your signal, but your not going to isolate your signal. In the truest sense of the word, if you would build something that was "inert", that would mean that the only thing that it could rest against would be something else that was "inert". A set of real inert speakers for example would crash through your floor and probably end up somewhere under the surface of the Earth's crust. Now the next one is a real doozy. "Discrete", I hardly have the words to describe how this term has misguided the HEA. Discrete should never had been made into an audio term. I understand the need for terms and my terms sometimes get tortured by others. Like the word "code" , but, audio does not work off of the principles of discrete nor can they because as soon as an audio language (analog or digital) starts interacting with a mechanical conduit it turns to signal, and signal takes on the character of the fundamental forces. In audio there is no discrete.

let me give you an example on this one

Someone the other day said something like he would never use an Equalizer and thankfully I didn't need to respond because one of you answered him back saying "what do you think a crossover is". Our audio chain is made up of parts. Once these parts are energized they interact with the language to become signal (I call it code and will get into why). When that happens everything in the audio pathway becomes an equalizing influence.

What I hope to do is reach a common ground between all of us. There's really no reason for debating over things that don't even matter. What does matter is letting a more realistic side of the hobby to shine through and be used. As the "Tunees" have found, and you will too, it's time for a practical empirically science based hobby to replace all the parts and pieces that got us here. This hobby, more than most, has a tendency to over engineer itself, leading to a world of fixing the fixes. There's no need for this. Physics is only difficult if you make it so.

Michael Green

www.michaelgreenaudio.net

michaelgreenaudio's avatar
michaelgreenaudio OP
643 posts
 

Thank you guys for letting me do this thread at my own pace, speed and way. Sometimes in this hobby of forumizing the temptation to jump in and be a part doesn’t always go as planned. There’s a sidetrack waiting around every corner and opinions and ideas generated by others that are just going to bust out of the chest like an episode of alien. I just want you to know "it’s all good". I’ve been doing this since 1981 everyday so believe me, I’m in no hurry. As you have ideas, comments or been there done that moments, it’s all part of mingling. If I had more than one brain I wouldn’t know where to put it, so having your brains on this thread is welcome.

So this next part gets a little tougher, but it has had to happen sooner or latter.

HEA is cool, it looks cool, it sounds cool and it’s in a way like a status trophy (for guys mostly). It’s just plain cool! But what happens when the paradigm shift takes place and it becomes all about the soundstage? For example, what if someone told you, you had to place your equipment in the closet so that you could hear the soundstage better? Some of you are freaking out right now, I can see you lol. Your running to your key board to tell me where to go lol. Well, what if you walked into your room and all you saw was the soundstage. You and your wife sitting there enjoying the concert, either looking at a screen/wall to go along with the stage or just the soundstage by itself? I need to tell you that day happened a while ago, but it’s being refined to the place where the connection between audiophile and videophile has met. In fact in a short time from now you will be able to take in your concert by means of hologram, yep right in your living room.

But lets back up to now. What if you were asks another question, what if you were told you would get a better sound and able to play more of your music collection by mounting speakers on the wall? Do you know that most of you who have floorstanding speakers in a room with furniture are loosing at least half of your soundstage and music content? I get emails every week saying "what can I do" from folks who are trying to make a dedicated room speaker work in a living room environment. So that’s two simple things right off the bat, do you have the right room and do you have the right room setup. Why spend years trying to do something that wasn’t meant to be, simply because something got a great review at someone else’s place? One thing we need to rethink is we are not going to force physics.

OK I realize I’m jumping around a little but it’s important to paint these pictures.

Michael Green

www.michaelgreenaudio.net

grannyring's avatar
grannyring
4,637 posts
 
Now you have gone too far! LOL! So speakers, both stand mount and tower, in the same room as furniture, are missing at least 50% of the soundstage and music? There is no hope and I am rushing to get a nice BOSE Wave radio. Just kidding. However, you now need to explain why wall mounting is better with furniture. How high? Higher than a floorstander I presume? I would think the negatives would outweigh the positives. Perhaps you are just giving us “suppose” hypotheticals that are not really true and I am taking your post too literally.
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