Phono Preamps with "balls" ?

Dear @avanti1960 : Power is ( for me ) the main characteristic of live MUSIC that obviously an audio system just can’t match it. Other main live MUSIC characteristic is it the transiente response " velocity " on each single note and harmonics these and other characteristics gives that outstandingn dynamics.

Analog can’t match digital and both are away from live MUSIC .

On any analog system ( a decent one. ) almost everything depends on: cartridge tracking habilities and accurate and well matched TT/tonearm/cartridge set up. With out that we will more away of the " target " .

What to look for a phono pream?, first that the phono-preamp has enough gain for the cartridge output level and be by preference a SS ( bipolars. ) design with no single tube inside, second that be an active high gain design or if need it a SUT that this device comes internally as part of the phono design and try to avoid external SUT that degrades always the cartridge signal due to the additional connectors, solder joints, frequency extremes limitations response and cable to connect it, third that the phono-preamp be designed with gain stages at minimum ( 2 gain stages is better than 4. Only an example. ), that the phono stage not only comes with a low RIAA eq. deviation as could be 0.1 db or lower but that that deviation looking through a chart of it does not happens at both frequency extremes, that comes with the Neumann RIAA pole, that the phono-preamp comes with not only a flat response in both channels ( matched ) but widely from 0 to at least 500 khz or even better 1 Mhz ( if any of us have a dude on why that so wider frequency range please email to Proffesor Johnson of Spectral/Reference Recordings designer. ) that the output impedance of that phono unit stay really lower at both frequency extremes ( we have to ask for. ) and that both phono.preamp channels shows the same: gain, output impedance, IMD, THD, RIAA response etc. levels

If we take care about ( obviously a decent amp/speaker/room. ) we can have that power you are looking for. Well not exactly that power because it’s imposible to achieve it not even by the digital alternative that’s the one that its approaching is nearest to than analog but analog sounds good too.

Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R.

Btw, bass is not synonymous of power. When we attend to a solo violin live event we can " feel " the power's violin or a cello or any instrument. Bass is only one characteristic of MUSIC.

R.

first that the phono-preamp has enough gain for the cartridge output level and be by preference a SS ( bipolars. ) design with no single tube inside, second that be an active high gain design

FWIW, it is a lot harder to build a solid state phono section that does not have RFI issues than it is to do the same thing with tubes. This is because semiconductors can act like diodes and thus rectify RF noise, thus making it audible.

I would add that phono stability (which includes but is not limited to RFI susceptibility) and overload margin are pretty important too, as such will mean that special loading considerations for LOMC cartridges are not needed (IOW, no loading resistors). The lack of loading resistors will allow the cartridge cantilever to track high frequencies better and with less distortion. A nice side benefit is far less ticks and pops as well as they are often a symptom of a phono section with poor overload margins and stability issues.

@atmasphere :  "   is a lot harder to build a solid state phono section that does not have RFI  "

maybe you can't or don't know how to do it.

Anyway you have always to " say something " against. Try to be an audiophile, take-off your tube builder hat because is useless in this regards.

R.

Ralph, although I completely agree with you regarding the overriding importance of designing sufficient overload margin and circuit stability into phono stages, while rectification of RF energy (and subsequent intermodulation) is indeed an issue with bipolar transistors due to the base-emitter connection functioning as a diode, JFETs are free of this effect.

A phono stage with JFET front-end devices can therefore be run with input resistors in the megohm range without problem.

The RF rectification issue of bipolar transistors can be reduced if local feedback (emitter resistors) are added, but doing so will worsen the noise, which is the main reason for using a bipolar transistor front end in the first place.

A further problem with a bipolar transistor front-end is the base current, which will go through the cartridge coils (gradually magnetizing the coil former, which is definitely undesirable). And if the input resistor is of high value, the base currents will cause DC offsets, unless the input is capacitor-coupled (a band-aid that wouldn't be necessary with a JFET front-end).

The main difficulties with JFETs are their comparatively low maximum voltage rating, and significant device-to-device variation.

Unlike the situation with bipolar transistor front-ends, both JFET issues are solvable cleanly; the voltage rating with cascoding, and the device variation by measuring and sorting prior to assembly (although this does mean extra work).

kind regards, jonathan

PS. Nor do I accept that there is a need to insert the extra Neumann constant, as listening tests (LP vs. master tape) have not necessarily shown it to be an improvement. And with half-speed LPs, the target frequency will be an octave wrong.