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High End is Dead?

Browsing used audio sites such as Audiogon and the Marts, high end gear ads are dominated by several dealers. Non-dealer ads are usually people trying to push 15+ year old off-brand junk at 60-70% of MSRP (when they were new). They don't sell anything. You could slash Wilsons, Magicos, etc, 50% off retail and no one will buy them.

No one buys if it costs more than 1k. It's not that they're not interested -- the ads get plenty of views. It's that the asking prices are just way over the ability of buyers to pay. Fact is, if you see a high end piece for sale it's probably by a dealer, often times trying to push it at 15% off retail because its a trade in, but also often they are taking a good chunk off the price 30, 40 sometimes 50% off. They can be famous brands with a million positive reviews. No buyers.

Are we just poor, and that's all there is to it? 
madavid0
Post removed 
ricred1
1,412 posts
 
What’s going to kill the high-end is the manufacturer’s control of the industry. I submit it’s crazy for manufactures to dictate what a component can be sold for and who a store can sell to. I know dealers who have lost companies because they provided too big of a discount or sold to someone outside of their district. As a consumer I should be able to purchase from any store I want to. The store should be able to sell at whatever price they want to without fear of losing the company. I’ve traveled a lot and have visited many stores. Why can’t I purchase something from a store I actually visited during my travel without the store being required to justify why they sold to me? The irony is some of these companies sell direct despite having brick and mortar stores that sell their products.
audiopoint
131 posts
 

We have yet to see any data or documentation showing where the High-End Audio Industry is shrinking, going away or dead (a whopper of gargantuan proportions). If you check Industry publications for statistics and view the distribution numbers (some are audited for authenticity), every magazine continues to grow readership year after year. If you check the quantity of internet videos and participation related to sound reproduction on the professional and consumer sides of life, you will find they too are increasing steadily on a daily basis.

The loss of dealer based audio showroom storefronts was due to the expanding internet. Examine Sears, KMart, Circuit City, Best Buy and JC Penny as examples of brick and mortar losses. It takes greater business savvy and sense to keep any brick shop open these days and yes there are dealers who have survived the web based onslaught and yes there are new dealers figuring out ways to open a storefront and expand business.

In the 50’s and 60’s High End Audio was considered a very “tiny” niche’ industry. We began to grow in the 70’s with the return of our Vets bringing home hi-fi systems from abroad. The 80’s was a leveling off or possible shrinking period due to the live performance going the way of MTV, the innovation of CD’s and other digital mediums. The 90’s saw an increase is business for whatever reason and the Great Recession absolutely reduced our “Luxury Driven Business”. Compare High End Audio stats to the precious stone market, top shelf auto or any other luxury driven industries and you might find similar comparisons and trends over the same periods of time.

What determines or separates Mid-Fi from High End? Is there a magical dollar amount one is required to spend?

Every industry imaginable offers products that cover the consumer investment spread. Notice how most of those Luxury Car Brands are now manufacturing more affordable versions? Does this mean their High End markets too are at risk?

When you started off, did you NOT begin with a low budget sound system and grow from there?

The person laying out the smaller bucks enjoys music just as much as the guy whose career blossomed into a higher earned income status and therefore can now afford the higher end offerings. One cannot judge an industry based on product availability and pricing in the pre-owned marketplace. Our company was built on a $10 product and we still sell the exact same product now - thirty years later where the price is $20… and in the High End Audio business to boot.  


Why not just call it AUDIO?


As a manufacturer and having been in this business for over thirty years, I will state the Audio Industry is strong, especially when observed on a global scale. It doesn’t matter how large or small High End or Mid-Fi or Whatever-Fi is currently being analyzed as all industry and business evolve on a daily basis. I have issues regarding the gloom and doom theories presented by a host of characters on this thread AND without any supportive evidence of said demise. It appears some are attempting to attract attention to themselves including a few manufacturers/dealers whose opinions are directed against the very business they depend on. Someone please inform them there are many other ways to shoot yourself in the butt!


Remember when?...  All it takes is hearing that first note on a higher quality sound system and you are hooked. Invite people of the younger generations in and let them hear what good sound has to offer. Just like all of us, there will be a percentage of new listeners who join the party.

I have faith in music. We have faith in human emotion and what listening enjoyment brings to the table. Music will always be a part of humanity and there will always be those who have the same urges as we do. Audio in all aspects will continue to populate long after we are gone.

Professional sound and consumer audio Trade Shows are selling or already sold out of exhibit space for the next season. The live concert circuit is hotter than ever and record sales are way up. Keep an eye on those record sales because when record sales are flat so goes the Audio Industry. The great news for everyone is that record sales always make a comeback… always!

I am an optimist and these are my humble opinions.

Robert

Star Sound  



folkfreak's avatar
folkfreak
1,149 posts
 
Most of ads on Audiogon is for old and/or off-brand gear for less than $1000. Wilsons and Magicos are a tiny minority of listings and they're all from dealers
Perhaps because a) the top end stuff is only a tiny minorityof the volume, especially when you take account of sales over time b) people hold onto top end gear and c) if they do sell it’s often via a dealer on consignment (let them deal with the hassle) or as a trade up (case in point the recent set of M Project being sold for a customer who has purchased M6)

As someone actively buying and selling in this market it seems quite healthy to me, sure maybe resale prices are not as good as they have been but that just means there are better options as a buyer, and anyone who gets into this business expecting not to lose 20-30% at least any time they buy and sell is fooling themselves

craigl59
306 posts
 
+1 folkfreak
Robert/Audiopoint:
Pretty sure we live on different planets but I admire your positivism and well-written creativity.
Here's something from John Prine's new album, "The Tree of Forgiveness:"
"The lonesome friends of science say
The world will end most any day
Well if it does then that's OK
'Cause i don't live here anyway..."
Yes, it's a great CD and you should listen to the final cut/masterpiece "When I Get to Heaven."
On High-end gear, that is!
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