Talk but not walk?


Hi Guys

This isn't meant to start a fight, but it is important to on lookers. As a qualifier, I have my own audio forum where we report on audio issues as we empirically test them. It helps us short cut on theories and developing methods of listening. We have a wide range of systems and they are all over the world adding their experiences to the mix. Some are engineers, some are artist and others are audiophiles both new and old. One question I am almost always asked while I am visiting other forums, from some of my members and also members of the forum I am visiting is, why do so many HEA hobbyist talk theory without any, or very limited, empirical testing or experience?

I have been around empirical testing labs since I was a kid, and one thing that is certain is, you can always tell if someone is talking without walking. Right now on this forum there are easily 20 threads going on where folks are talking theory and there is absolutely no doubt to any of us who have actually done the testing needed, that the guy talking has never done the actual empirical testing themselves. I've seen this happen with HEA reviewers and designers and a ton of hobbyist. My question is this, why?

You would think that this hobby would be about listening and experience, so why are there so many myths created and why, in this hobby in particular, do people claim they know something without ever experimenting or being part of a team of empirical science folks. It's not that hard to setup a real empirical testing ground, so why don't we see this happen?

I'm not asking for peoples credentials, and I'm not asking to be trolled, I'm simply asking why talk and not walk? In many ways HEA is on pause while the rest of audio innovation is moving forward. I'm also not asking you guys to defend HEA, we've all heard it been there done it. What I'm asking is a very simple question in a hobby that is suppose to be based on "doing", why fake it?

thanks, be polite

Michael Green

www.michaelgreenaudio.net


128x128michaelgreenaudio
Michael Green
“Quantum, discrete, isolation, dampening, compression, NASA, EE, inert, first reflection point, transparency, revealing and many more that are a part of the selling of HEA aren’t necessarily being used in the truest sense but have been turned into tools of convincing a certain part of the public of HEA to defend the market. You take a forum like this and throw in a little internet trolling and limited experience and you can see why the transition is taking so long. But the more you have folks like Tjbhuler speaking out, the easier the pill is to swallow.

>>>>Of course words are just words and they have different meanings for different people. No surprise there.

also I want to throw this in from Geoff

"There is much confusion over what quantum physics is, what audio devices employ quantum physics or operate via quantum mechanics or quantum physics. However, it might be a little bit of an overreaction to condemn all audiophile devices marketed as quantum devices as hoaxes or suggest deception or lack or integrity. For example, the CD laser itself operates quantum mechanically, or any laser; they are “two dimensional quantum wells.”

And one more thing that you guys should think about studying are the "fundamental forces". A lot of audio is easy to figure out if you have taken a course in, or even study on the internet, the interaction of the Earth’s forces.”

>>>>>Michael, The “fundamental forces” and the interaction of the Earth’s forces sound like interesting topics. Can you expound on what you mean? What are we talking about here?
MG
Yes tbh I am just about in heaven with my system for sure
I can and do sit and listen for 5, 5 or more hours at a time with no fatigue or desire to stop the music flowing.
Twas not always that way of course, I have had the same room for 11 years and when I think back to what I started with in their and where I am now.
The biggest mover was the Lyngdorf 2170 that basically did all the room tuning I need for me.
Not much more I need to achieve and changes I make now are just because I feel like it or the desire to "upgrade" like new cartridges.
So yes ring that bell!
I don't participate much here because as an objectivist I am clearly in the minority. Early in my audiophile hobby I participated in two blind amplifier tests, from Hafler and Adcom to Levinson, McIntosh and Conrad Johnson. I'm sure you can guess the outcome. That led me to read more blind tests and about why a component should or shouldn't make an audible difference. That knowledge let me kill off many more myths. Since then I pay no attention to people's opinion ... unless it regularly matches my own. My outlook is that if you didn't hear it blind, you didn't hear it. I don't care what you think you heard. That's not to say you shouldn't be happy with your confirmation-biased system. Because happiness is the ultimate goal of our lives ... or should be. But it's going to have no effect on what I think or buy.

Now when I purchase a system my first filter is speaker measurements, and then I break out REW to tune the room or the system (EQ). I don't care about amps, wires, DACs or anything above 320kbps (another blind test conclusion).

Michael, I'm sure you know this is a phenomenon in likely every hobby. I've run into and debunked golf and bowling myths. But my current main hobby is guitar and the myths are just as bad, although blind tests are not quite as ostracized ... yet, but you can tell that's starting to take hold in the tube amp and "tonewood" communities. One of the funniest blind results was regarding tonewood when the same electronics were transferred from one guitar to the other ... that other guitar being made of Lucite. I'm sure you can guess the results of that test too. Another test I found interesting was a $2,000 Mesa amp against a tiny $170 amp voiced specifically to mimic the Mesa. They sounded slightly different, but the $170 amp sounded BETTER!


The biggest choice in HEA of course is whether to select a guru or be your own.
Because this "hobby" (that's laughable in itself) is about buying things and then self-justifying the reason for the purchase.   It includes pontificating about unmeasurable attributes to validate using music to listen to equipment.