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Talk but not walk?

Hi Guys

This isn't meant to start a fight, but it is important to on lookers. As a qualifier, I have my own audio forum where we report on audio issues as we empirically test them. It helps us short cut on theories and developing methods of listening. We have a wide range of systems and they are all over the world adding their experiences to the mix. Some are engineers, some are artist and others are audiophiles both new and old. One question I am almost always asked while I am visiting other forums, from some of my members and also members of the forum I am visiting is, why do so many HEA hobbyist talk theory without any, or very limited, empirical testing or experience?

I have been around empirical testing labs since I was a kid, and one thing that is certain is, you can always tell if someone is talking without walking. Right now on this forum there are easily 20 threads going on where folks are talking theory and there is absolutely no doubt to any of us who have actually done the testing needed, that the guy talking has never done the actual empirical testing themselves. I've seen this happen with HEA reviewers and designers and a ton of hobbyist. My question is this, why?

You would think that this hobby would be about listening and experience, so why are there so many myths created and why, in this hobby in particular, do people claim they know something without ever experimenting or being part of a team of empirical science folks. It's not that hard to setup a real empirical testing ground, so why don't we see this happen?

I'm not asking for peoples credentials, and I'm not asking to be trolled, I'm simply asking why talk and not walk? In many ways HEA is on pause while the rest of audio innovation is moving forward. I'm also not asking you guys to defend HEA, we've all heard it been there done it. What I'm asking is a very simple question in a hobby that is suppose to be based on "doing", why fake it?

thanks, be polite

Michael Green

www.michaelgreenaudio.net


128x128michaelgreenaudio
glupson
1,794 posts
 
bdp24 and whoever is interested in tuning drums,

I have no knowledge or skill about tuning, tensioning, or playing drums and I am not sure if I completely grasped every detail in bdp24's post, but I just stumbled upon a video on youtube where a drummer with probably more experience than most of the people on the forum talks about tuning his drums. I guess they can be tuned. Again, I am posting this just for anyone who may be interested how someone who apparently knows what he is doing is doing it and not for arguments about semantics.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nd9fcmBLbDQ

prof and aailenk,

Although I am keeping my mind open that some of these tunings may make a difference as I did get fooled into thinking things could not matter just to find out that they did, I think your posts eloquently address a problem with this particular thread. Much earlier, I also asked for examples of things insinuated in OP and I did get the answer. However, I decided not to pursue the discussion and gave that answer benefit of the doubt that it was me who could not understand rather than that the answer was a bit too vague and complicated. That does not mean that tuning techniques mentioned do not work, but simply that they seem way too vague to me to give them a shot. If they do, indeed, work, I am honestly glad that someone is benefiting from them. Aurally or financially.
prof
1,741 posts
 
glupson,

Thanks.

Nowhere in this thread have I disparaged MG’s products or his room tuning ideas. I did not even take those to be the subject of the thread. Because his OP did not even refer to room tuning, but rather to a much broader complaint about some people critiquing based only on theory but not on what Michael would take to be "empirical" testing.

That could certainly be a fascinating discussion. I’ve long had an interest in the philosophy of empiricism and the philosophy of science, so I was, as I originally mentioned, happy to see someone bring this up.

But my attempt to draw out Michael on his point and ideas only met with...for some bizarre reason...evasions and vagueness. I’m still baffled as to why.

Moreover, Michael’s subsequent posts have been focused on turning the conversation to room tuning and, in fact he has just tipped his hand that his OP, though ostensibly looking for conversation about theoretical vs empirical attitudes, was actually his "door" to offer more about The Tune.  He apparently wasn't looking for dialogue so much as saying "I'm here to give wisdom about my room tuning methods, you are either ready to receive or not."

So, it frankly makes his OP look all the more like a disingenuous, self-serving marketing move - an excuse for him to tell us more about his room/recording tuning, vs a real call to dialogue about the subject he actually implied in the OP.
glupson
1,794 posts
 
Prof and Michael Green,

it is really silly to claim that everyone on this forum is selling something. That statement alone waters down any seriousness in that whole post and casts some doubt about remainder of the posts.


I am not here to sell anything. I have a completely different career. I doubt I will be selling anything any time soon, either. I hand my things down.

How many people on this forum are actually selling something? In this particular thread, I found one.

When it comes to no bad recordings (or bad sound carriers of whatever sort), but just about them not being in synch with the room, why do some of my CDs sound worse? It is easily replicated through headphones, too, which I would assume takes away the room factor?
glupson
1,794 posts
 
prof,

I did notice that turn towards tuning and came to similar conclusion as you did, but was curious about the things implied in OP so I asked. I have no interest and time to accumulate all the experience in the world when it comes to listening to music so I could become someone considered "walking, not only talking". If a friend tells me "that is great, you should hear it for yourself, I was surprised", I would do it. However, abstaining from any discussion just because I have not done something myself seems fairly unreasonable.
elizabeth
6,726 posts
 
"Everyone IS selling something".. either an attitude, or an idea, or a notion. Every post with any effort is selling it's ideas.
So yeah, we ARE all selling something.
And it is sold cheap! All you have to do is read the post!
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