Vandersteen Sub woofers v Rythmik Subs

Noble100 (Tim), indeed I also have Floyd Toole's Sound Reproduction and keep coming back to it for his research with multiple subs. A piece of work with learnings that take time to sink in - at least for me. 

I also agree there are multiple ways to get low bass right and we are probably overloading the OP with info about multiple subs when he's considering 1 or 2. For such a case I would seriously look into a DSPeaker unit to complement the sub/s, and go with 2 subs if budget allows, but still one well integrated sub is generally better than no sub (of course depends on the speakers at play, the sub, the patience, the willingness to learn, etc).

Looks just like 2wq. with more power and a new eq. Can't wait for some reviews. Thanks for posting that.

Hi audioconnection,

     I'm a bit confused by your last post.  You state: " What you guys need to consider is the thinking outside the box.
The Sub 3 nips your particular room overload in the bud with 11 band analog room compensation No DSP processers here.
 With its unique high pass or reliving the heavy lifting of your main amp allows your whole system to improve its articulation, dramatically improving transparency and clarity.". 
     From your description, the new Sub 3 seems like a very nice powered sub  that is a worthy replacement for the now discontinued  2Qw sub. However, I'm failing to grasp why you consider the use of the new Sub 3 as an example of 'thinking outside the box'.since it seems to be a very capable sub that nevertheless would likely be classified by most knowledgeable reviewers as a conventional sub. 
      I would think you would consider, as I do, that the use of a distributed bass array system like the Swarm is a more suitable example of 'thinking outside the box' than the seemingly much more conventional Vandersteen Sub 3. 
     Could you please clarify your statement about 'thinking outside the box' and specifically to which members your comment was directed toward?

Thanks,
  Tim

I know that Richard V. recommends corner placement of the 2wq's and I have had one room that corner placement worked well in. However in my current listening room (and the previous one) the bass is not good in the corners. Every room is different and in my "particular" room there is way to much low frequency reinforcement from the corners. It over loads the room with energy. Again dealing with smaller  (and odd shaped non symmetrical) rooms is challenging. Adding to the challenge is limited placement options for multiple large boxes with wires that need to be routed somehow.  WAF comes into play here (again). The current location inboard of the 3a sig's is the best location that I have come up with so far and sounds quite good for the moment but I'm not done experimenting yet. Those new Sub 3's have my attention though. Will be keeping an eye on them.

It's all a balancing act for sure. In an ideal situation we would all have large rectangular symmetrical rooms with high ceilings, constructed of musically good sounding material (because all rooms and all material have a "sound") That would minimize the problems we encounter. We could even design room acoustic treatment into the room. Again in an ideal situation we would have  purpose designed rooms. But most of us have to live with what we have and make the best of it with our limited resources, including time. For me this is a journey and I am still heading down the road and having fun with it.
 Another thought is from a manufactures point of view. Trying to design speakers that work well in all the wide variety of rooms that their designs will be asked to sound good in must be a daunting challenge.

Have a great day!

Hi sonicjoy,

     Very good post with some good points.
    After over 40 yrs of building systems and listening to music in different homes and rooms, I definitely agree with you that every room is different, especially in bass response. 
    When installing a system,  I've recently come to the conclusion that it's best to view a sound reproduction system as 2 separate systems: a bass system and a mid-range treble/sound stage illusion system.  I think having a separate bass system as 4 subs can actually be more useful for achieving best integration and sound if you have the room space.
    The bass is the hardest to get right because the sound waves are so long that they continue to bounce/reflect off all room barriers until they run out of energy.  These sound waves eventually either crash into each other causing standing waves and typically a lack of bass at those points or they piggy-back on another reflected sound wave and cause bass reinforcement and typically exaggerated or boomy bass at these points.  
     Acoustic engineers are able to predict where sound waves will intersect based on the room dimensions, sound wave frequency, barrier material and speaker/sub location(s).
     The beauty of a properly set up distributed bass  array system of 4 or more subs is its ability to eliminate the vast majority of intersecting bass sound waves, and therefore the vast majority of bass peaks and nulls, in any given room.  This not only makes the bass sound more accurate and smoother, the bass response is this good throughout the majority of the room. 
     As you're all too aware, having a small and non-symmetrical  room only makes good bass response more difficult to attain.  I understand you have space and waf issues but I still believe a Swarm distributed bass array system is your best option for achieving state-of-the-art bass response in your room.  
      This system is not as intrusive as some may initially think.  Each sub weighs about 44 lbs., has a 1 sqft. footprint and is 28 inches tall.  Each sub is positioned with the driver facing, and about 1 inch away from, the wall.  The visible portions of each sub(sides, top and back) are made of your choice of high quality wood and actually look quite good and stylish.   Have your wife choose the wood.
      Hiding the speaker wires may be the most difficult issue if you can't run them below the floor or in the walls.

 Just my thoughts-good luck,
      Tim