Pieces of music that digital can't get right

@onhwy61, as you may already know, a good small diaphragm condenser mic is best for cymbals. I’ve been recorded with Sony’s (don’t know the model number, but I believe they cost over a grand), the Shure SM81, AKG’s, and Neumann’s (very expensive, found in major studios only). Two used as an overhead stereo pair (one purely left channel, the other right) creates a natural image with "spread".

Whatever mic you use, try using a pretty hefty amount of compression on the pair. A ride cymbal (played with the tip of the stick) so recorded creates an intense CLICK sound, very percussive. That really helps with mediocre ride cymbals, which typically lack attack and focus, Ginger Baker’s being a perfect example. Mushy!

My main question: Is the ambience in the TT an analog artifact or aka. bleed thru of the channels? Or is the TT actually playing it correctly?

I would have to hear it myself. I suspect that the ambience is either real and your DAC cannot reproduce it or it is not real and an artifact of your LP system. I will listen to these tracks (Ventura Highway and I Feel Fine) streamed through my high-resolution system this afternoon and report back what I hear.

It is really easy to go down the garden path with either analog or digital. The best way to determine what is happening is to get a high-quality, low-jitter DAC and source into your system (not Marantz) and see how that sounds playing a .wav version of the track or using a transport with low jitter.

Digital jitter can easily muck-up the ambience and less expensive DAC can cause compression and distortion that also muck-up the ambience. I assume you are talking about the venue echoes when you say "ambience".

Steve N.

Empirical Audio

I played both pieces on my digital playback system:

"Ventura Highway"

(Mac Mini streaming Amazon music 256K MP3 -> WireWorld Platinum USB cable -> Off-Ramp 6 XMOS USB converter -> Empirical Audio Reference S/PDIF BNC cable -> Overdrive SX DAC)

A rhythm guitar is centered and front with two lead guitars playing the same riff on the left and right, also front. The left lead guitar seems to be leading the right one slightly. Not sure if it is a dub of the same guitar with a slight delay or two separate guitar players. All three guitars seem to be acoustic, probably with pickups. May be amplified with solid-state amps. Vocalist is slightly back with little or no echo applied in the mix. Drum-set and bass is centered and slightly back, but appears smeared. Bass is a bit muddy. I don’t hear any venue echo at all. I sense significant compression in the mix causing everything to be loud and the guitars to be in-your-face. The clarity is good for the guitars, but the compression causes things to be not 3D. Fairly live and rich sounding for the guitars if you lower the volume, but the drums and bass are not good. I don’t find it "clean and sterile" at all. The biggest issue is the Drum-set and Bass and the compression IMO.

"I Feel Fine"

(Mac Mini playing local re-mastered 24/44.1 track using Linn Kinsky/Minimserver/BubbleUPnP -> in-wall Ethernet cable -> Modded Router powered by LPS - WireWorld Platinum 0.5m Ethernet cable -> EMO EN-70e isolator -> WireWorld Platinum 2.0m Ethernet cable -> Overdrive SX DAC Ethernet interface)

The electric guitar (probably a solid-body Les-Paul) is front right. It is definitely amplified with a tube amp. The drum-set is left and pushed back about 8 feet. Vocalists are centered and pushed back even more, with a little echo applied in the mix. The vocalists are a bit tightly clustered in the back-middle so it’s hard to tell if they are all singing into the same mic or not. It would be nicer if they had been spread out more. Nice attack, sustain and decay, although the dynamics are not quite what you would hear in a modern recording. Definitely not lifeless. Hard to hear the venue echoes, but there are some that help you locate performers. Very little compression I think. Good 3-D rendering with decent focus and imaging. Good separation with nice blackness between the three performers. Guitar is quite live sounding.  I find it fun to listen to.

Both of these are recorded at high levels, which is unusual for recordings from this era. I prefer the sound of the Beatles track, even though is it older. The compression makes Ventura Highway not live IMO, although it sounds fairly live if you are not in the sweet-spot.

I will say that the Ethernet has a slight advantage over the USB, but eventually I will get a device like this that solves the USB problems and brings them on-par:

https://sotm-usa.com/collections/sotm-ultra/products/copy-of-tx-usbultra-regenerator-1

I think the problem is your digital electronics and digital sources. There is nothing boring or clinical about either of these tracks.

Steve N.

Empirical Audio

After listening to the " Ventura Highway" track again, I decided that the bass flabiness may be due to USB, but the lack of depth and splashiness of the close cymbols is probably compression  The cymbols in the back are actually okay.  The vocalist is actually fairly narrow and 3-D, although not very deep.

Steve N.

Empirical Audio