2. amps-preamps
  3. 142193-89892

Thinking about upgrading, but wondering about diminishing returns

Hi folks,

I have mostly Conrad Johnson Gear-- LP260M SE mono blocks, with 8 kt120 tubes each.  These are SET amps that put out 270 wpc.  I have the Conrad Johnson  ET5 preamp, with a Telefunken 6922 tube, and a pair of EgglestonWorks Viginti speakers (their new take on the Andra's).  Phono stage is the Pass Labs XP-15.  For source material I have a Rega  RP10 with the Apheta2 cartridge, and the Oppo BDP105 (Modwright upgrades) CD player.  I have Audioquest Colorado interconnects (go easy here :) ) and Audioquest Oaks for speaker cable.  My listening room is 13 x 19, carpeted floor, drywall walls and ceiling (well insulated).  I set up with the equipment on the long wall, with me listening from the 13' side (with speakers in about 2 feet and about 8.5 feet apart).

I listen to a mix of vinyl and cd's; vinyl when I have several hours to listen quietly (and clean the records on the Clear Audio Matrix Pro Record Cleaning Machine).  I listen to CD's when I have less than an hour, and for when I work out.

I am thinking about upgrading a single component, probably my preamplifier, to a Conrad Johnson GAT2 or a Pass Labs XS preamp (solid state). My thought was that this will likely make the most improvement in soundstage, imaging and overall musicality.  A used GAT2 will be at least $14K and the Pass XS used is about $19K.   I am interested in hearing from those who have had experience with upgrades like this.  I am also wondering (as a middle class guy)  how close does this come to the law of diminishing returns?  Finally, is this the component you would upgrade, and if so, if you had a wide range of musical tastes-- mostly classical/full orchestra in vinyl and rock on CD's, which preamp would you select?

Please feel free to take a swipe at these questions, and also feel free to point out if you feel I should be asking different questions that will help increase my knowledge and advance the cause for others.

I am likely to go to an audio show sometime, but please don't suggest that I go and listen to the gear, as that's at least 200 - 400 miles, and I don't feel right about going to a brick and mortar store knowing that I will almost surely buy used.

Thanks in advance for whatever assistance you can provide.


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onhwy61's avatar
onhwy61
4,163 posts
 
Upgrade your sources first.  Start with the cartridge and and the CD player.  Nothing is wrong with them, although the Apheta has its detractors, I just believe their replacement would provide you the most cost effective path.
lak's avatar
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lak
3,516 posts
 
In my opinion, you have a rock solid system and the law of diminishing returns is a killer. One will have to spend a lot of money to hear a bit more soundstage, imaging, and overall musicality. I'm guessing that's what you are after by your post. I honestly am not sure when all is said and done that the switch in preamps is going to make that much difference. As Audiophiles, many of us (myself included) get bitten by the upgrade bug not that there is anything wrong with that.
I'd be curious to know if you are using dedicated circuit breakers and upgraded AC duplex outlets? In not to me that comes forst.
jperry
1,408 posts
 
Sorry if my initial comments seemed terse.

You have a system that looks like it sounds great and probably does. You are also in an area of significant diminishing returns. I have been in a similar situation and it seems like you can churn through equipment while making little if any positive improvement.

In your position changing to a better preamp will make an improvement, but the change will not be really significant because of diminishing returns.

Because you only listen casually to digital I would not spend much time or effort there.

I would focus on my analog front end. Rega makes a good turntable and you have their best. Changing to a idler, direct drive, or high torque belt drive (i.e. Dr. Feickert) will make a real and significant change to your system. I have had Rega, Michelle, Basis, and a lot of other turntables. Changing to a vintage Garrard 301 made a real improvement in my system. I think you should give a high torque turntable with a quality tonearm a try. I don't think you will want to go back.

Best Regards,

Jim Perry
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liamowen OP
70 posts
 
Jim, your initial comments sounded fine to me, as do your others.  I appreciate your taking the time.  I thought about a Dr. Feickert before I got the Rega, and may explore that further.  Meanwhile, thanks so much for your VERY helpful comments.

Photon46-- Thanks for the room treatment suggestion.  I don't have any now, but certainly could add some, as this is a listening / home office / workout room (with a couch, ottoman, desk and cross trainer.  I must admit, though-- I have no knowledge of room treatments at all-- what is most likely to be the best bang for the buck improvement given the info I have provided so far?

Thanks everybody for the input so far.  Please continue to weigh in.  It is really helpful to me-- and thanks to George, who suggested that I put this on the forum in the first place.
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david_ten
2,509 posts
 
'Diminishing' and 'Returns' are highly personal and subjective. No one, and I repeat no one, can assess that for you. It's your 'Law' to make and live by.
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