2. amps-preamps
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Thinking about upgrading, but wondering about diminishing returns

Hi folks,

I have mostly Conrad Johnson Gear-- LP260M SE mono blocks, with 8 kt120 tubes each.  These are SET amps that put out 270 wpc.  I have the Conrad Johnson  ET5 preamp, with a Telefunken 6922 tube, and a pair of EgglestonWorks Viginti speakers (their new take on the Andra's).  Phono stage is the Pass Labs XP-15.  For source material I have a Rega  RP10 with the Apheta2 cartridge, and the Oppo BDP105 (Modwright upgrades) CD player.  I have Audioquest Colorado interconnects (go easy here :) ) and Audioquest Oaks for speaker cable.  My listening room is 13 x 19, carpeted floor, drywall walls and ceiling (well insulated).  I set up with the equipment on the long wall, with me listening from the 13' side (with speakers in about 2 feet and about 8.5 feet apart).

I listen to a mix of vinyl and cd's; vinyl when I have several hours to listen quietly (and clean the records on the Clear Audio Matrix Pro Record Cleaning Machine).  I listen to CD's when I have less than an hour, and for when I work out.

I am thinking about upgrading a single component, probably my preamplifier, to a Conrad Johnson GAT2 or a Pass Labs XS preamp (solid state). My thought was that this will likely make the most improvement in soundstage, imaging and overall musicality.  A used GAT2 will be at least $14K and the Pass XS used is about $19K.   I am interested in hearing from those who have had experience with upgrades like this.  I am also wondering (as a middle class guy)  how close does this come to the law of diminishing returns?  Finally, is this the component you would upgrade, and if so, if you had a wide range of musical tastes-- mostly classical/full orchestra in vinyl and rock on CD's, which preamp would you select?

Please feel free to take a swipe at these questions, and also feel free to point out if you feel I should be asking different questions that will help increase my knowledge and advance the cause for others.

I am likely to go to an audio show sometime, but please don't suggest that I go and listen to the gear, as that's at least 200 - 400 miles, and I don't feel right about going to a brick and mortar store knowing that I will almost surely buy used.

Thanks in advance for whatever assistance you can provide.


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liamowen OP
70 posts
 
Thanks David.  I understand that it's my decision, but being middle class makes $15,000 A LOT of money for me, as I suspect it is for at least some others.  Maybe I can rephrase this as "what's the best bang for the buck" if I want to get a better soundstage (depth and instrument separation/definition) given the equipment that I have.

LAK-- I don't have a dedicated circuit, nor do I have upgraded outlets.  That would be easy to do, though, as my best friend is an electrician.  Is this upgrade generally viewed as helpful by the guys (and gals) with an electrical background?  Again, I have no experience in electricity, other than getting shocked as a kid, and making sure I have no static electricity in my system when playing.

Thanks all.
audiotroy's avatar
audiotroy
1,621 posts
 
Honestly you have a ways to go before you should even think of upgrading your electronics. The Audioquest Cables you have are not up tothe rest of your system and your digital should be way better than it is.

We were long time AQ dealers we have since moved on to the Wireworld cabling which we think sounds even better for similar pricing. 

The Colorado didn't sound anywhere nearly as good as the Niagra which didn't sound anywhere as good as the Skys.

Also what are you using for power cables and a conditioner? Room treatments, racking and vibration isolation.

1: Upgrade cables
2: Add power conditioning and power cables
3: Vibration isolation for table and gear
4: Possibly better digital source

Then and only then would I even consider upgrading your preamp the ET 5 is very good, yes the GAT is even better but until you work on the envionrment first you will not gain the benefit of the GAT.

Also we have a set of ART amplifiers for $11k that will outperform yours you may want to make the swap before the preamp.  If you sold your amps for $6k you would  only have to add $5k to get a much better set of amplifiers. The ART/Gat combo was famous, the ET 5 was a mini Gat.

Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ
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david_ten
2,509 posts
 
@liamowen You are welcome. 15K is a lot and IS a significant spend.

Your post is clear, as is.

Let me put it this way, if I had your system and I had committed to spending 15K, I’d address the power side and cabling before choosing a preamp. For me, based on my experience, addressing the box and line to your room, and then the outlet on will give you system wide impact.

This ’should’ exceed the upside delta of impact from a top level preamp, which the GAT 2 most definitely is.

Having said the above, the addition of the right preamp for any system can be sublime (something I have recently experienced)...and it’s hard to put a price on that. However, what I've suggested will only add to what a top level preamp will do for your system.

All the best with the direction you choose and the choices you make.
elizabeth
6,726 posts
 
Great system as is, However the one way low item is the Oppo. I suggest the "one thing" you need is a better silver disc spinner. I would seriously suggest checking out the Marantz SA-10 ($7000 list) as a great device. Esoteric and PS Audio also make good silver disc spinners.The Marantz is particularly good with CDs. So if you play many CDs.. I would highly recommend the Marantz. (It is great used as a DAC too)  
One other area you do not mention at all is a Power Conditioner. I would suggest as a second item one of two choices. Either a AudioQuest Niagara 7000, or a PS Audio P20.
Small upgrade #3 would be a few high end Duplex, at the wall, and AC distribution if you do not buy a AQ or PS Audio device.
I think the amplification is great as is. Ditto speakers and TT.
tomic601's avatar
tomic601
2,164 posts
 
great system that I bet brings a lot of joy...

by all means use the electrician friend to add a few dedicated circuits on the quiet leg of your panel. IF he is going to use unused breakers buy new ones from a quality company ( Square D ), hab
ve him clean up box, check grounds, tighted everything. You can get Hospital grade Hubbel outlets for $30 and then the sky is limit....IMO $120 buys a killer outlet.

Room treatments - Call GIK Acoustics and speak w engineering sales person, they will advise on room. w your size room you are looking at about $2k, maybe 3... this will make a WORLD of difference....

get Jim Smiths book on better sound. Revisit your speaker setup using a precision setup laser ( Leica disto ) your speakers reward careful detailed setup !

Power conditioning for digital components, switching supplies and trash and has producers first. Here a Furman can be quite effective. I like the Niagara class gear for phono pre, but not Power amps.

You can easy trial PASS gear including used and demo gear with return via the dealer in Colorado...great accommodation 

Used Sky interconnects validated by factory to be authentic would bring out nuances missing today.

have fun !!!! enjoy the music

Jim
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