2. amps-preamps
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Thinking about upgrading, but wondering about diminishing returns

Hi folks,

I have mostly Conrad Johnson Gear-- LP260M SE mono blocks, with 8 kt120 tubes each.  These are SET amps that put out 270 wpc.  I have the Conrad Johnson  ET5 preamp, with a Telefunken 6922 tube, and a pair of EgglestonWorks Viginti speakers (their new take on the Andra's).  Phono stage is the Pass Labs XP-15.  For source material I have a Rega  RP10 with the Apheta2 cartridge, and the Oppo BDP105 (Modwright upgrades) CD player.  I have Audioquest Colorado interconnects (go easy here :) ) and Audioquest Oaks for speaker cable.  My listening room is 13 x 19, carpeted floor, drywall walls and ceiling (well insulated).  I set up with the equipment on the long wall, with me listening from the 13' side (with speakers in about 2 feet and about 8.5 feet apart).

I listen to a mix of vinyl and cd's; vinyl when I have several hours to listen quietly (and clean the records on the Clear Audio Matrix Pro Record Cleaning Machine).  I listen to CD's when I have less than an hour, and for when I work out.

I am thinking about upgrading a single component, probably my preamplifier, to a Conrad Johnson GAT2 or a Pass Labs XS preamp (solid state). My thought was that this will likely make the most improvement in soundstage, imaging and overall musicality.  A used GAT2 will be at least $14K and the Pass XS used is about $19K.   I am interested in hearing from those who have had experience with upgrades like this.  I am also wondering (as a middle class guy)  how close does this come to the law of diminishing returns?  Finally, is this the component you would upgrade, and if so, if you had a wide range of musical tastes-- mostly classical/full orchestra in vinyl and rock on CD's, which preamp would you select?

Please feel free to take a swipe at these questions, and also feel free to point out if you feel I should be asking different questions that will help increase my knowledge and advance the cause for others.

I am likely to go to an audio show sometime, but please don't suggest that I go and listen to the gear, as that's at least 200 - 400 miles, and I don't feel right about going to a brick and mortar store knowing that I will almost surely buy used.

Thanks in advance for whatever assistance you can provide.


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elizabeth
6,726 posts
 
Great system as is, However the one way low item is the Oppo. I suggest the "one thing" you need is a better silver disc spinner. I would seriously suggest checking out the Marantz SA-10 ($7000 list) as a great device. Esoteric and PS Audio also make good silver disc spinners.The Marantz is particularly good with CDs. So if you play many CDs.. I would highly recommend the Marantz. (It is great used as a DAC too)  
One other area you do not mention at all is a Power Conditioner. I would suggest as a second item one of two choices. Either a AudioQuest Niagara 7000, or a PS Audio P20.
Small upgrade #3 would be a few high end Duplex, at the wall, and AC distribution if you do not buy a AQ or PS Audio device.
I think the amplification is great as is. Ditto speakers and TT.
tomic601's avatar
tomic601
2,164 posts
 
great system that I bet brings a lot of joy...

by all means use the electrician friend to add a few dedicated circuits on the quiet leg of your panel. IF he is going to use unused breakers buy new ones from a quality company ( Square D ), hab
ve him clean up box, check grounds, tighted everything. You can get Hospital grade Hubbel outlets for $30 and then the sky is limit....IMO $120 buys a killer outlet.

Room treatments - Call GIK Acoustics and speak w engineering sales person, they will advise on room. w your size room you are looking at about $2k, maybe 3... this will make a WORLD of difference....

get Jim Smiths book on better sound. Revisit your speaker setup using a precision setup laser ( Leica disto ) your speakers reward careful detailed setup !

Power conditioning for digital components, switching supplies and trash and has producers first. Here a Furman can be quite effective. I like the Niagara class gear for phono pre, but not Power amps.

You can easy trial PASS gear including used and demo gear with return via the dealer in Colorado...great accommodation 

Used Sky interconnects validated by factory to be authentic would bring out nuances missing today.

have fun !!!! enjoy the music

Jim
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gdnrbob
2,421 posts
 
@tomic601 , 
+1 as usual.
As an AQ user, I have great respect to their products.
Johnny Rutan suggested that I upgrade my Rockefeller speaker cables to GO-4 last year. I bought them, but never installed them, as things sounded really great and installing new cables was a PITA. But, we got a new rug and things had to be moved, so while doing all the moving, I installed the GO-4's.

Reconnecting the system, even my friend, who thinks I am crazy buying all this stuff said:
'Wow, what a difference. Bass is more articulated, things seem more alive, and I thought is couldn't sound better. Even before Billie Holliday seemed to be in the room'.
So, I think you should consider at least a cable upgrade, before spending a lot of money on a new component. You might be surprised.
Johnny's Agon name is Audioconnection, should you wish to PM him. He won't sell you, but will give you honest information.

 I also second having an electrician install a dedicated line to your system.
Bob
mr_m
1,087 posts
 
Bob,
Are you bi-wiring with two pairs of GO-4's? John Rutan called me and suggested the GO-4's. I haven't tried it yet. I still have a bi-wire pair of AQ. Rocket 88's. Guess I better GO-4 it! lol....                                            Tim
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gdnrbob
2,421 posts
 
Yes, Mr_M, two pairs.
To be honest, I thought the Rocket 88's were the cat's meow, but Johnny said try this, and I did. He also recommended the AQ Thunder power cord for my DAC (Ayre Codex). I ended up putting them on my amps, and I can honestly say they made a huge difference over the no name PC's that came with my equipment. 
Mind you, I own both Ayre and Atmasphere. Ralph seemed to dismiss a power cords ability to affect sound reproduction (if I recall correctly, if not, forgive me Ralph), and I have read that Ayre equipment seems to be very indifferent to changes in power cables (perhaps due to the zero feedback design- like Ralph's).
In any case, the change was quite dramatic. And, for the positive.

Let me state that I am not someone who buys the most expensive doodad. In fact, my system has been bought entirely on Audiogon and US Audio Mart. I researched as best I can, and picked John Rutan's brain. To my aged ears, I have a stereo I can listen to for hours on end, and can't find anything lacking- the music speaks for itself.
That being said, I hope the OP will give my posts some food for thought.
Bob
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