2. amps-preamps
  3. 142193-89892

Thinking about upgrading, but wondering about diminishing returns

Hi folks,

I have mostly Conrad Johnson Gear-- LP260M SE mono blocks, with 8 kt120 tubes each.  These are SET amps that put out 270 wpc.  I have the Conrad Johnson  ET5 preamp, with a Telefunken 6922 tube, and a pair of EgglestonWorks Viginti speakers (their new take on the Andra's).  Phono stage is the Pass Labs XP-15.  For source material I have a Rega  RP10 with the Apheta2 cartridge, and the Oppo BDP105 (Modwright upgrades) CD player.  I have Audioquest Colorado interconnects (go easy here :) ) and Audioquest Oaks for speaker cable.  My listening room is 13 x 19, carpeted floor, drywall walls and ceiling (well insulated).  I set up with the equipment on the long wall, with me listening from the 13' side (with speakers in about 2 feet and about 8.5 feet apart).

I listen to a mix of vinyl and cd's; vinyl when I have several hours to listen quietly (and clean the records on the Clear Audio Matrix Pro Record Cleaning Machine).  I listen to CD's when I have less than an hour, and for when I work out.

I am thinking about upgrading a single component, probably my preamplifier, to a Conrad Johnson GAT2 or a Pass Labs XS preamp (solid state). My thought was that this will likely make the most improvement in soundstage, imaging and overall musicality.  A used GAT2 will be at least $14K and the Pass XS used is about $19K.   I am interested in hearing from those who have had experience with upgrades like this.  I am also wondering (as a middle class guy)  how close does this come to the law of diminishing returns?  Finally, is this the component you would upgrade, and if so, if you had a wide range of musical tastes-- mostly classical/full orchestra in vinyl and rock on CD's, which preamp would you select?

Please feel free to take a swipe at these questions, and also feel free to point out if you feel I should be asking different questions that will help increase my knowledge and advance the cause for others.

I am likely to go to an audio show sometime, but please don't suggest that I go and listen to the gear, as that's at least 200 - 400 miles, and I don't feel right about going to a brick and mortar store knowing that I will almost surely buy used.

Thanks in advance for whatever assistance you can provide.


Ag insider logo xs@2xliamowen
dorkwad
317 posts
 
Best bang for your buck is to paste all your connections with Perfect Path Total Contact enhancer ($299) or much less if you go in with a few buddies. Then get a Perfect Path Omega E-mat ($599) and put it in your circuit breaker box. Get 5 or 10 E-cards from Perfect Path ($299 for 5) and put one each under each piece of equipment. If you get 10 E-cards, tape one to the back of your top highest positioned driver and do the same with the lowest positioned driver in each speaker. If you have a large system, the PPTC may take awhile to do. I do and it took me about 4-5 hours--I had 216 individual pins to paste counting RCA pins, tube pins, spades, bananas, fuses ends, prongs of your power plugs and IECs. If you follow the directions and do at least what I said, in a day your system will be better sounding. The cool thing is, after you’ve done this there will be periodic jumps in performance especially at 4 weeks and 8 weeks. Adding the mat will bring very noticeable improvements to all things hooked up to the circuit panel including TVs, computers, and of course, your sound system. The cards have a quicker time to show improvement and will also make a big difference. All areas of your tunes will be improved. Perfect Path will be coming out with THE GATE that you will wire into the circuit board at 2 spots, much like a wires from your outlets. The Gate just sits on the bottom of the circuit box. It is said by the maker to being up to 100 times more powerful and effective than one mat. Of course, the price is much higher I believe. Tim Mrock of PP said it will be about $5000. He says it will be the single largest leap in performance by far that any of us have ever experienced. Pretty darn exciting. There is a long thread about PP products in the Forum. Spend your money on upgrades if you must. If you don’t experience the PP products, it is definitely your loss. I’m about to do the second and third stages I mentioned. One could buy and use more mats. They are more powerful than the cards. The cards can slip into smaller places, however.

Bob
photon46
1,008 posts
 
Liamowen, you asked about where to start with room treatments. As previously mentioned in this thread, GIK Acoustics in Atlanta would be a good source for both advice and product in my experience. Their product line is a good compromise between function, aesthetic refinement, and cost. While there are product lines that have a more polished look to the finished install, they cost considerably more. I have ordered four times from GIK now. With each addition of more room treatments, the room I listen in has been further removed from my listening experience and the sound of the recording venue has taken on a greater proportion of what I hear. It's much better for you to communicate with GIK directly as far as advice for where to start. Every room is different and what worked for one person might not be the best place to start in your case. 
richdirector's avatar
richdirector
44 posts
 
I would say you are way past the point of diminishing returns ..... unless there was s something in the music you don’t like ...... 2019 I am going to try avoid changing components .... maybe buy more music and see more gigs.
richdirector's avatar
richdirector
44 posts
 
And to add I set up my larger lounge just for hifi so speakers placed purely for sound using cardas placement method they are nearly in middle of 7m long room. I then printed some pics from filming in Rwanda onto 3 GIK acoustic sound absorption boards for back wall .... also 2 free standing boards for 1 st reflection points. Would use bass traps in rear corners but doors and cupboards there so I leave them open with some drapes across to break up some rear waves.

speaker placement alone done properly is the biggest single improvement I ever made.
Ag insider logo xs@2x
liamowen OP
70 posts
 
Wow!  Thank you all for your help on my original post.  Your responses have been very, very enlightening and helpful.

I am definitely going to go with a dedicated circuit breaker and some high quality outlets.  My electrician friend needs something to do this winter :)

I am also going to act on the room treatment suggestions, and the laser to make sure I have maximized my alignment on the speakers.

I will also do some testing with new interconnects.

Finally, I will check out a "better" turntable.  I am not sure what the rules are here about equipment, but if anybody has a lead on a turntable, or has one for sale, that will perform better than the Rega RP10, please PM me.

Sadly for the fellow selling the CJ GAT2, it looks like that's going to have to wait.

Thanks again for all of your help.  If anybody has anything else, please feel free to weigh in, either now or later.  I am still very much a novice at this endeavor.
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