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Back to the drawing board

I hate to start this again. I really had my heart set on 2 svs sb3000. But know after careful listening or maybe this time around I realized what was happening.  So I went to best buy just to re evaluate my decision and noticed I did not like what I was hearing.  Thus time around I had a couple of hours and has my significant other with me, oh no what we heard totally ruined our previous thoughts.  In one room I listened to the rel t9i and the svs sb2000.  The svs had the out put but not the detail and it really hurt the mid range and uppers. Lower base was not full or detailed. Now the rel, wow it just blended really nice and was full, detailed and just sounded right. I'm thinking to myself this can't be right. So off to the other room, svs sb 4000, 16 ultra and the rel s5. Now again the svs has the output or pressure. But the s5 totally beats both of them on detail, disappearing,  tight,  full and more sound stage. I went back and forth between these 2 rooms, playing the same 2 tracks I have always demo with. I know my ears would not lie. So now unfortunately I am reading again. I am considering 2 t9i or 1 s3.  I think I will also demo the JL e110 and paradigm defiance x12.  Wish I could demo a rymthik,  but don't know any places to demo. I will make the trip and one place has the JL and rel. 5 miles further down I can demo the x12.  I now know the sound I want and unfortunately it's not svs with its great price and impressive output. I'm sure the subs are great, but not what me and the ms want in our system.  Has anyone demo JL and rel side by side?  I love the rel sound, is paradigm or rymthik as tight as rel. I've never listened to JL.  I guess a road trip is due. Room is 8ft ceiling 14x24, hardwood floors. Thanks for any help you can give. Pete
pcc67
stevecham
3,298 posts
 
Are you absolutely certain that you had the SB2000 adjusted properly when you auditioned? They have three adjustable parameters that are critical to get the bass clear and intergrated with the main speakers: level, phase and crossover. If the phase or crossover settings are not optimized that could account for what you heard. I say this because I have two SB2000s and it took me some time and patience to optimize those settings in my system. I hear nothing but very clear, powerful and textured bass that integrates perfectly with my mains, which I run full bandwidth.
elizabeth
6,726 posts
 
I agree the likelihood of the sub NOT being properly set up is VERY high. Particularly a place like Best Buy! YOU could ask them what they did to set up the sub properly, and expect to get a serious complex answer. Not just 'Oh our guy did it" (where is he) 'Oh not here today...' (when can I speak to him) 'Gee that is hard to say....'When in reality no one did anything except plug it in.
pcc67 OP
49 posts
 
Elizabeth and Steve,  
I'm sure u are both right. All I have ever read about svs is how great they are and other audiophiles saying that the came from other well know subs like rel, JL, etc...... so I was quite confused how so many could be wrong. Unfortunately best buy magnolia is not the place to audition anything.  I was really set on pulling the trigger on 2 sb3000. My budget is 2500 and I am very anal when it comes to my money.  I still need a new pre. I have a dc1 and looking at avm 60 or mrx 720. So I need to be wise about my purchases. I may have to go back and talk with someone there. Unfortunately these guys just want to sell and not do the work for the commission. So I might have to order one and use the 45 day return policy.  But I will also try to demo the rel t9i in home at the same time. I wish there was a local hifi audio place close by, makes it very difficult to demo. Does every one still suggest 2 or just one higher end sub?  Anything u guys can suggest is helpful. Elizabeth do u run a sub?  Steve what subs have u demoed to the sb2000?
jbhiller's avatar
jbhiller
464 posts
 
I bought a REL T9i just a couple weeks ago. I cannot comment on SVS or  paradigm or rymthik.  I didn't audition any others than REL--full disclaimer.  But I do have a small Sumiko (similar to REL).  

So, we must keep in mind that I've only heard half the equation here.  

I would think, on one hand, that the others are right about setup.  Setup is trick or can be.  I've had mixed experiences at Magnolia/Best Buy too--some good, some not. 

The exact things you state about the differences between what you heard with REL v. SVS is the reason I tried an REL.  I was super concerned about booming output.  I wanted a sub-bass system to pressurize the room and tune it.  I have no idea what SVS sounds like. I can only say the REL was worth every penny. 

One final thing.  I bought a $50/60 Auralex Subdude II platform to fit under the REL T9i.  I put it in place after a week or so of having the REL in the system.  I had to restart the tuning/setup of the REL completely.  It was worth it.   Without the Auralex I had the crossover set at about 8:30/9:00 and volume there or a touch lower.  With the Auralex I have both in the neighborhood (after tuning) of 10:00 o'clock.  The output is more cohesive, tighter, and it's clearly not using the suspended hardwood floor to multiply the low bass as it was before. 

Can you do an in-home demo?  Audioadvisor and Music Direct allow it and carry REL.  

erik_squires
5,268 posts
 
It's a shame this is so hard. The biggest issues in my mind with subs are getting the EQ right. Below 100 Hz are where the monsters of audio are. Smaller subs avoid this just because they are smaller subs.

Lots of subs built-in auto-EQ / room correction kind of suck.

The biggest audible differences in subs is the room EQ. When you eval a sub, make sure you eval the auto-eq features, OR you work with an installer who can set it up properly.

JL Audio makes the best sounding auto-EQ I know of in a sub, but it's expensive as all get out, and I've read plenty of reliability issues.

For ~ $1,000 you can have most of the performance with a Hsu sub and mini DSP but the integration is where things are different.

Also, room acoustics matter. Contact GIK first. Get an assessment and recommendation for your room, especially around bass traps.

To be clear, first get good room treatment. Then settle on a pair of good output, high quality subs. Third, get the EQ for the sub done right.

Best,

E
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