Used Market Savings vs. The Dealer Experience


Hi all,
I’ve asked a couple questions on these forums and have always gotten great advice, so I’m coming back to the well. My fundamental question is: how do you reconcile (or balance) the auditioning value a dealer provides vs the absolute dollar value you get from buying on the used market?

I bought a McIntosh MA252 recently, and it’s so great it’s convinced me to commit and invest in a serious hi-fi system. I’d drop $30k for something that put my jaw on the floor. Right now I’m running Goldenear Triton 2s, a Marantz TT-15 TT for analog, Mytek Brooklyn + Bluesound Node 2i for digital, and just replaced a Marantz PM-8005 with the Mc. Silnote cables all around. The Mc gave me my first taste of actual holographic imaging and sound you could reach out and touch. Now I want more of that, as well as greater/faster/more pronounced dynamic shifts.

I have a dealer nearby that’s been a joy to work with (bought the Tritons and Mc there). They let me listen to their 200k Wilson setup with D’Agostino amps and sweet little baby Jesus -- it was like trying to box a feral animal in the complete darkness. Lashes of sound just came out of nowhere, smacked you upside the head, and were gone. I was dumbstruck. The Sonus Faber Olympica IIIs, by comparison, were a smoother, more musical sound signature but far less of that arresting clarity.

I make this point because, had I not been allowed to audition this gear, I would have had no idea about any of that. In doing my due diligence to shop for a setup, I know I want to hear Focal Sopras, Olympica IIIs again, Goldenear T-Refs AND maybe a Wilson Sasha for good measure. I want to hear Mc separates, ARC separates, Rega TTs, Linn TTs, etc. To me, my dealer provides real value in auditioning, optimizing, and being confident that what I’m buying is what I like best.

Unfortunately, with new vs. gently used prices, the $ cost of that experience is massive -- $10k+ quite literally. On the used market now I can get Olympica IIIs for $7k instead of $13.5k, a Rega RP10 w/ Aphelion for $6.5k instead of $9ish, Mc C1100 + MC275 for $13k instead of $20k, and a pair of Sasha’s at $15k is within striking distance. New? They’re $30k. I also live in a high sales tax (10.1%) area, which doesn’t help anything.

For those with more purchasing experience, or even dealing experience, how do you square the value of auditioning gear with the exorbitant relative cost of then foregoing the used market? I feel definite guilt sucking my dealer’s resources to then just go buy it all online. That’s bad business, and if everyone did it, there would be no dealers, and heck, no new gear being made.

Is there a better way to do this?

Thanks,
Ben
bfjones01
stereo5
Jack is the best indeed. I hope that he landed a position in Audio retail or Manufacturer representative elsewhere. His kind of expertise is a rare find these days. Good to read that you have established a relationship with Audio Classics, McIntosh gear.  Happy Listening!
@jafant...…..

I remember Jack when he was at Images Sight & Sound in Northampton, Ma. I bought a brand new McCormack DNA1 from him. Stupidly, I sold it for a Classe15 amp at another dealer. Hey, I was much younger and less wise in audio.
I buy some new, locally from a dealer, some from internet dealers, and some used. My new Magnepan 20.7 delivered and set up free by dealer, had an issue, dealer guys come back, find it. Order new set of 20.7s. When they come in.. Dealer guys bring and set up and take away first pair. no cost to me. Good service.  
My dealer also suggested to me and allowed me to try at home Marantz SA-10. I liked it enough to buy one from them.  
On the other hand I buy stuff used too.         
Also here, recently there was a long contentious thread about demo'ing at dealer then buying item online. https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/could-i-be-a-retail-wretch
Anything I have ever bought on the basis of review, recommendation, blog or thread is no longer in my system.  (Almost) the only components that have brought the system up in sound quality, that continue to give pleasure, are components that I have been allowed to try at home in the rest of the system in the room where they play.  In the long run (and I've been swapping out audio gear for 50 years or so) you'll save money by avoiding the bargains.

That's only possible with a dealer's help.  I've had dealers bring in gear and set it up and let me listen for weeks before deciding.  In a few cases, I have (somewhat sheepishly) declined to buy it, and they have been OK with that.  Why?  Because if you are honest with them, they can accept the loss of time and income it takes them to allow you a true audition, knowing that it's part of their cost of doing business, and it's going to cost the customer more if he/she decides to keep the gear.  Of course it may take some time before they're willing to trust you with a $50K component, so the relationship gets built slowly.
Most often the dealer is NOT local.  If you want to listen to a range of high-end gear, you'll be working with dealers all over the country.  I don't have any "local" dealer closer than 200 miles away.  In one case, he made multiple trips to my home to set up a turntable, then again to upgrade the arm.  (I did buy that).  In another case, I made an appointment to audition a CD/DAC stack, the dealer spent an entire afternoon with me alone, and yet I did not buy it.  But I kept the dealer (and the US distributor) aware of my reasoning at all stages.  It may not have been the outcome they hoped for, but they knew I was a serious buyer, not fooling with them, and they accepted that.  I expect one day I could go back to that dealer and audition something else, and they would be just as accommodating.
I've bought a pair of huge floor standing speakers from a dealer on the other side of the country, after hearing them twice at shows, and this is the one exception to my listen-at-home rule.  The advantage was paying no tax and no shipping, and I got a very good price on new up-to-date gear by saving him the trouble.  But I was pretty certain of what I was getting, because I already owned a smaller model from the same manufacturer.

Once, a dealer in another state shipped me a very heavy and expensive phono stage for home audition, and to my own surprise, I didn't like it.  It cost me less to ship it back than it would have cost to fly there, plus by hearing it at home I got a much more accurate impression of the gear.  But we're still friends.
ya man, miss getting the Spearit Sound emails, they carried stuff outside my normal orbit...always enjoyed that...

and another +1 for Audio Classics....I use the service department, trusted them with my prized MX-110Z, Modeferi worked on it....gemstone grade...