A comparison between two DACs, one R-2R, the other ES 9038-based.


This is an item from the FWIW Department, I guess.

Recently I set up an A/B comparison between a Denafrips Pontus and an OPPO Sonica…. Both DACs fed from a Nuprime CDT-8, via the XLR inputs on the same preamp, and everything else constant through the two signal paths to the speakers.

The result when I repeatedly toggled back and forth from the preamp’s input one [Denafrips] to its input two [OPPO]?---- To my surprise [and disappointment], the sounds from the two DACs were utterly indistinguishable, across all kinds of music, after repeated trials … impossible to tell apart… impossible.

The moral of the story? I don’t really know, but it does suggest to me that those who say that DACs of comparable quality cannot be told apart just might have a point.

I bought both the Pontus and the Sonica because I thought that it would be nice to have on hand DACs of “different flavours,” one based on an R-2R ladder, the other based on a delta-sigma chip. 

I did want the expected difference to be real… just for the fun of it… else why spend the extra money? So, my “confirmation bias” was, if anything, stacked in favour of there being a detectable difference.  

However, the results of a reasonably well controlled comparison [sadly?] did not bear out that expectation. Differently based DACs, 2-R2 vs delta-sigma, may not offer such different flavours as many suggest. Is that claim all much ado about nothing?

Thoughts from members of the Forum?

 

 

 


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I thank the Forum members who have responded to my “Comparison of DACs” post. Here are some comments:


Janehamble aptly suggests that I should specify the music, file quality and equipment I used with a possible word about my “music listening skills.”

 

Music [all on redbook CD]:

·    Large ensemble jazz: Eberhard Weber, 
“The Colours of Chloe,” ECM.

·    Piano jazz: Jean Beaudet, “Seul au Piano, Elephant Records.

·    Large ensemble classical: B. Bartok. “Concerto for Orchestra,” Charles  Dutoit, EMI.

·    Small ensemble classical: B. Bartok, String Quartet #6, Emerson Q, DG.

·    Pop/jazz vocals: Billy Childs, “Map to the Treasure: Reimaging Laura Nyro,” Sony Masterworks.

 

Equipment… First Test:

·    Transport: Nuprime CDT-8 [one test NOS, another OS @ 96Hz].

·    DACs to be compared: Denafrips Pontus, OPPO Sonica.

·    Preamp: PS Audio PCA-2 with HCPS power supply--- For the RCA inputs comparison

·    Cables: PS Audio

·    Amps: Anthem MCA 20

·    Speakers--- one test: Emerald Physics EP 2.8, another test: Magnepan 1.7. 

Music listening skills:

·    It’s not for me to say, is it?

 

Equipment…Second Test:

 

Everything the same, except for---

·    Preamp: Wyred4Sound STP SE--- For XLR inputs comparison.

 

georgehifi wants to know if I limited the test to PCM redbook CD.

Yes, in the test described in the OP… But later I did a test involving 2 different DACs fed by Spotify/USB. I’ll describe that later.

 

junzhang10 maintains that one’s budget should be allocated

60% on speakers, 30% on amplification and 10% on CD players, DACs. 

I am starting to agree with this.

 

falconquest insists that the Pontus is way overpriced and generously offers to take it off my hands. 

I shall have to think about this. Thanks, falconquest.

 

ethan_bennettstresses the importance of “extremely sensitive instrumentation” to detect “the extraordinarily subtle” differences between DACs. 

I do not doubt the importance of using good equipment with any DAC. However, I am starting to doubt that those “extraordinarily subtle differences” really exist. Thus the OP.

 

musichead speculates that my preamp may be “imposing the same character on both [DACs].”

Perhaps he would like to explain how a preamp can perform that sonic feat; and, even more, how such uniformity can be imposed by two different preamps [the PS Audio and the Wyred4Sound] in two different tests. Interesating.

 

anwar has beat me to the punch already by conducting a comparison of his Denafrips Terminator [lucky man] and his OPPO 205. He opines that my comparisons would be more valid only after the Pontus has had a chance to break in for a few months.

Re test: What were the results of your comparison, Sir?

Re break in: One does not want to awaken needless controversy, but the whole idea that electronic equipment requires break in time seems to be…. Well, open to doubt. But I have no axe to grind; anwar may be correct. 

 

gosta and roberjerman find the reported results of my tests plausible.

That encourages me to think that I am not going crazy. 

 

simna needs only 10 seconds to hear palpable differences between two of his DACs.

It would be interesting to learn more about the test conditions and the nature of the dramatic differences.

 

A bit more of FWIW--- another comparison, this time with Spotify Plus as the source, via USB.

 

Music:

·    Essentially the same as above.

 

Equipment… Third Test:

·    DACs to be compared: Denafrips Ares, Audioengine D2 [BB PCM 1792A-   DAC].

·    Preamp: PS Audio PCA-2 --- For the RCA inputs comparison

·    Cables: PS Audio

·    Amp: Talk Electronics Toronado 2.2.

·    Speakers--- Martin Logan Spires.

 

Result of comparison--- The same damn thing: Two differently configured DACS [R-2R vs delta-sigma] sound exactly the same from a streamer via USB.

 


This is really eye opening to me, I was planning to trade my Oppo Sonica for Metrum Onyx R2R DAC. Thanks OP!
I’m one who could be inclined to question the capability of the supporting equipment. I’ve heard plenty of differences between DACs and other components.

I’m sure you can identify the poster that sticks to a dogmatic opinion about the impossibility of differences between components. Julian Hirsch Jr. Always beats the same drum.
Resolution and transparency capability. The PSA is a 20 year old design, in those days PSA was considered pretty good mid-fi. The amps, while nice, are nothing special. No offense intended.

These are just my opinions and I have no stake or real interest so am not getting into any debates about it.

Just that I know that DACs do differ and the differences can be heard when conditions are right.