2. amps-preamps
  3. 146419-53619

What responsibility does a seller have to tell a customer an item has been serviced?

A few months ago I bought an expensive pre-amp from a dealer here on audiogon. This is a long time known dealer with an 100% approval rating.

I went to his home to listen to it and there was one quirk about the design I didn't like about it but I thought I could live with it. I had spent so much time and effort to get it. A pretty long drive. When I brought it home and within 24 hours by the afternoon of the next day I realized I couldn't live with it I called him to return it. 
He didn't want to take it back. On his website he has a 30 day return policy. Unfortunately not being an experienced buyer I did not know there is a hidden tab on audiogon saying no returns. Why is this not stated on the main page?!

I was furious and he said he would take it back if I forced him to but he already had another buyer for it. I felt bad and there was a (hidden) no return policy so I let it go.
I had given to him two excellent pieces, the pre and an integrated, and cash for it so I lost quite a bit of money on the deal. I'm obviously not an experienced savvy customer.
I asked him to just give me the pre back for the piece he sold me and keep the rest but no deal. And he told me the pre I gave him in perfect condition, the one I wanted back, wasn't working so he had to send it in for repair. But I shouldn't worry about it. What?!!! I drove it to him I didn't ship it! And why shouldn't I worry that I gave him a non working component when I told him it was in perfect condition?!

Then about a month later I saw he had it listed for sale. This was about 2 AM and I immediately wrote him asking for it in exchange for the item I bought being that the sale he had fell through. Early the next morning hours later he told me it was sold and he had taken it down.

He did list my item he sold to me on audiogon for a couple of months at his expense but no sale. I finally at an extreme loss as I said was able to use it for credit towards another item being sold by another audiogon dealer. This dealer told me he spoke with the American distributor of the brand who told him the first dealer had sent it to him for repair. This was not told to me. Of course I was outraged. But I hadn't asked. If I had known I would never have bought it.

So this is my question: What obligation does a seller on audiogon have to tell a client an item has been serviced if a dumb customer doesn't ask?


Still burned by the loss of so much money and the jerking around and what seems to be a couple of lies.

roxy1927
tomic601's avatar
tomic601
2,164 posts
 
OP
we live in the physical world of stuff that breaks
music should be our escape
absolutely do not memorize this with a bad karma placard but if ya do I would suggest a broken guitar string....
larry5729's avatar
larry5729
65 posts
 
Looks to me like the retailer you purchased this from must have known there was something wrong with it.  Kind of like buying a car and then finding out it had been in an accident.  If the dealers states his return policy in writing, you have legal rights that can be enforced in a court of law.  This is why I would never purchased used equipment.  I don't buy used cars either.  I certainly would not purchase a used car from a private party.  You should disclose the name of the party you purchased from so this person should be removed from Audiogon.  You should also take him to court.  Sounds like he is extremely dishonest and a con man.  You also need to report him to the Better Business Bureau.  Hope you learned your lesson.  You should have demanded he write out his return policy on your invoice.
minorl
740 posts
 

We are really getting caught in the tall weeds here.

The only responsibility the seller has is to list accurately the condition of the unit.  Does it work correctly?  What is the appearance? costs?

Whether a unit has been serviced or repaired?  That has nothing to do with the sale.  either it works within specifications or it doesn't. 

One has to ask the question, why would you want to know whether a piece was "service"?  and what does "serviced" mean anyway?  checked for operational capability?  repaired?  I may be concerned about upgrades and would want to know, but even then, maybe not.

For example, I own a pair of Martin Logan Monolith III Speakers.  years ago I sent the power supplies and passive crossovers in for repair.  So what?  I replaced the panels in 2006 with new ones and changed the woofers to the recommended Peerless woofers (much better bass response).  Martin Logan did the repairs to the crossover and power supplies, so do you really care about that?  I don't.  If I were to sell the speakers, I would tell the potential buyer that I changed the woofers and still have the original ones if he/she wants them also. 

But, what difference does it make that I had Martin Logan repair the crossovers and power supplies.  The fact is that the speakers work perfectly now.  I'm now using a Krell KBX electronic balanced crossover.  I also had issues with my system and thought the electrostatic panels may be at fault so I ordered new panels.  They are still in my office at home in the boxes because I found the real problem wasn't the speakers but a single tube in my preamp.  A single tube! 

So, in my opinion, no.  it is not the sellers responsibility to inform the potential buyer of repairs or "service" what ever that means.  It is, in my opinion the right thing to do to inform of upgrades done.  Which I do.

If a potential buyer asks, I will tell them about repairs or service done. 

All I care really when I purchase something on audiogon, is 1) does it work correctly?  2) what is it's appearance?  3) any upgrades done to it? 4) price

I'm finding that there are lots of lookie loos out there that want to treat a private sale like a retail store.  They want to look and listen before buying.  That is fine for new equipment, but really not cool for used equipment.  One should know what they want before purchasing.

I will accept an offer of purchase, then allow the buyer to come to my home to personally pick up the unit and pay.  Every time I've done that, I have the unit operating in my system so that the buyer can see/hear for themselves that the unit works and sounds correctly.  Also, that takes away any excuse later for them to say it didn't work.

Well, yes it did. You heard it for an hours and paid.

That is really why I don't like paypal.  It protects the buyer, not the seller.  I can ship a perfectly operating unit to someone, paypal keeps the money in escrow until the buyer says it is okay.  however, if the buyer was a lookie loo, they can say the unit didn't work correctly and paypal refunds the money.  the seller then gets the unit back and finds the unit works perfectly.

That sucks.

One reason why I like to converse with buyers/sellers before completing transactions.

enjoy

chrshanl37
622 posts
 
For me it depends on the circumstance. If the item was dropped or mishandled and needed to be repaired I would want to know that. It would also matter to me who performed the repair. If someone had their buddy who thinks he’s handy with a soldering iron fix it to try and save a buck or two vs sending it back to the manufacturer, I would certainly want that disclosed. But that is not what happened.

Personally, I always disclose if an item has been in for service while i’ve owned it as well as who did the repair. However, if I purchased something and later found out it had been sent to the factory for a repair I doubt it would bother me that much. In fact as others have said I would probably feel much better that it had been in for the repair instead of having to deal with it on my dime later on down the road.

minorl makes a very good point about tire kickers and I get a sense that is the case here. Had you been happy with the preamp I find it hard to believe the repair would be an issue here.


markalarsen's avatar
markalarsen
375 posts
 
“he said he would take it back . . . .”  I doubt you would ever be satisfied. 
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