Strange turntable/speaker issue


OK, this is going to be lengthy, but here goes....

I have a feeling someone else has experienced this, and want to get some advice in how to correct this issue.

Some background; I could not keep myself from wondering just how good the old vinyl I had boxed up for years would sound compared to my digital set-up, which sounds pretty good to me right now. But, out of curiosity, I finally dragged up my old turntable that has been stored in my basement for 15 years (since I moved in), and probably have not used it in at least 25-30 years total. Originally purchased in the mid 70’s, it is a basic Kenwood KD-2055 with the heavy composite ‘granite’ base. After getting it set-up, I realized very quickly the old Ortofon OM 5E cartridge I installed in the mid-80’s was not going to ‘cut it’, and could not compete with my CD’s, files, or streaming set-up. So, after doing a bit of research, and not knowing yet if going back to some vinyl listening would stick, I purchased a Grado Premier Red, mounted it in the shell, set it up, and yes, it is a vast improvement. Much better overall dynamic range, soundstage, imaging, etc. than the Ortofon 5E. I thought to myself, ‘this may just work’. But, as I was checking some things out, I realized my Vandersteen 2CE’s were actually moving quite a bit (volume was a bit high, but not overly so). That is no easy task. I got back behind the Vandy’s and the rear 10” acoustic coupler was actually moving in and out at a fairly rapid speed, thus causing the speakers to actually move on the anchor stands quite noticeably. Now, this was not really effecting the sound, or creating sound in and of itself, but it can’t be good. First thing I thought was I had misconnected the cartridge leads at the shell, so double checked, and they are connected as per the Grado instructions. BTW, this could have been happening with the old Ortofon as well, but I may not have noticed. Overall, while playing music, the turntable also seems highly sensitive to moving/walking around as the music was playing without distortion. I don’t have to tell you, this does not happen with CD’s or digital files.

I have my turntable on top of a pretty beefy steel frame with wood shelves 60” long ‘TV stand’, as yes, my system also acts as a ‘home theater’ setup, as well as a 2 channel set-up for music. The Vandy 2CE’s are my ‘front’ and 2 channel speakers driven separately by a B&K 125.2 power amp. The lowest shelf of this unit consists of CD storage, the middle shelf my B&K amp, Yamaha V871 receiver (I use as my pre in 2 channel, although it does little as the front channel pre-out’s go directly to the B&K, and while playing music I run in ‘pure direct’), CD player, and PS Audio DAC which all my CD’s, files, and streaming runs through. The top shelf is my TV, Elac center speaker, and my turntable. At this time I am using the Yamaha phono stage (that could change soon, as I think a dedicated phono pre-amp would help things a lot). The TV/equipment stand sits directly to the side of the right speaker, not between the Vandy’s, as they are on each side of my fireplace. The turntable is about 4 1/2’ from the right speaker, and right about the same level of the Vandy’s front 8” woofer.

So, all that said, I have a feeling what I am getting is sonic feedback between the speaker and turntable, perhaps with the cartridge acting as a microphone getting hit with the sound waves from the right speaker, even with the dust cover down. Because of room and layout constraints, I have very limited locations for all this stuff, so not sure a relocation of the turntable is really possible, and if I did, would have to get long male/female RCA interconnect extensions to get back to my Yamaha, or any future phono pre-amp, which would still have to run back to the Yamaha probably utilizing the analog Audio 2 inputs, as the Audio 1 inputs are serving the PS Audio DAC.

So, is sonic feedback what I am witnessing? Or could it be something else? And is there any easy solution? I doubt isolation feet will solve anything if feedback between the right speaker and turntable is the problem.


128x128bkeske
No its not feedback. Feedback does this thing where it, uh, feeds back in a loop, louder each time, which usually happens pretty darn fast. That crazy loud fingernails on chalkboard screech you hear with PA systems sometimes, that is feedback. You ain't got that.

What you got is regular old rumble. Could be one thing, could be a couple. The table was stored a long time so could be the lube dried and you got bearing rumble. Pull the platter, turn the bearing directly by hand, see how it feels. See if its sealed while I cross my fingers for you that it can be opened and lubed. You'll want to do this if you can regardless.

But really most likely is you got a lousy (for a turntable) stand setup, which between the stand and the floor and everything else is just not near stationary enough for a turntable. The quick and easy way to test this is play a record with the turntable sitting on the floor. Not on anything else just directly on the floor. My bet is that eliminates a lot of the woofer flutter.

What you already know however, and I know you know this by your comment "I don't have to tell you this does not happen with digital" so you know but maybe forgot, records always do this. Even really flat vinyl on a state of the art table and stand, there is going to be a lot more woofer flutter than with digital. How much is okay and normal and how much you're getting is damn hard to be sure by reading a post however.

So don't freak. But do check. And then maybe we can talk about that stand.
Thanks gillatgh
And, turns out, the Kenwood is about what I thought it would be- a few drops of lube. Except, oops, that's the motor. Which probably does need lube but is not the bearing I was talking about. Which if sealed and dry is a problem. Almost certainly it dried out sitting in storage. My very similar Technics did. Fingers crossed the Kenwood can be lubed. https://www.manualslib.com/manual/899687/Kenwood-Kd-2055.html?page=7#manual


Thanks a bunch miller.

Very good to know it isn’t a sonic feedback issue. I’ll check the belt drive ‘spindle’ for ‘feel’. This table has a lube hole right at its base. I always had the lube that came with the table handy, but goodness knows were that is now. Yes, it probably needs lubed regardless, so, is there any type of oil/lube I can purchase which will work?

if I do decide to keep it on the stand, as it is extremely sturdy, would new feet or sorbothane isolation discs help?

And yes, it’s been a long time, and never had speakers as my Vandy’s with this turntable. I started, with all things, Utah 3 ways, the last, the original Polk 5 jr’s (which I still have in storage). Never remember this happening with those. As I say, it isn’t easy to move these speakers at 70+ lb per, let alone from the reaction of the rear ‘acoustic coupler’. So, maybe some, but this seems extreme, and abnormal.

I’ll put the table on the floor and check it out per your advice to get a benchmark, but good to know it may just need a good lube and some isolation/stability. Just brought it up this weekend, so much to re-learn from 30+ years ago.
Went through almost identical experience unpacking my 1970's Technics SL-1700. Running it on the floor eliminates the rack. Whatever you get on the floor is the table/bearing. But more than that it serves as a reference for what to get from a good turntable base or stand. The great vibration control guru the late DJ Casser always said the best rack is no rack. How right he was! Ran my Basis on the floor for over a year for this very reason. Took me that long to be sure what it takes to run a table at a comfortable height without sacrificing sonics. The result was worth the wait http://www.theanalogdept.com/c_miller.htm

What I did here was right for me, in my situation and with my turntable. What will work best for you remains to be seen. Rest assured there is a solution, probably even a fairly easy and affordable one, but be equally assured its not as simple as slapping on some sorbo-feet. For now just run it on the floor. Preferably long enough for you to become accustomed to how it sounds there. The floor remember is your benchmark! When you see (and hear) how it sounds on the floor you'll be in a really strong position to evaluate what happens when its moved onto a rack or shelf.