Ohm Walsh 3/3000 upgrade comments.......


Just to provide a little background information, some of which has already been stated in a couple other threads previously, on my quest to find a pair of Ohms. I remember listening to a pair of Ohm Walsh 2’s and 4’s some 25 years ago at a dealer near my home. They were one of the most unusual looking speakers at the time, with the cool looking pyramid-style cabinets and funky metal canister drivers on the top. But what made the deal for me was the music coming from them. Very unique and awesome soundstaging and I didn’t have to be in the sweet-spot!

At the time I had a pair of Magnepan MG-1’s, and while I loved everything about the music they made, I had a difficult time living with the head-in-vise seating in order to totally enjoy them. So, I bought a pair of Ohm Walsh 2’s on the spot and lived with them for about 5 or 6 years. I think I thought about them from the day I sold them and regretted ever getting rid of them. A couple of my friends had Ohm’s, one had a pair of 2’s and the other a pair of 4’s. I always wanted 4’s, but at the time, a little out of reach. Of course we all lusted after F’s even though I had never heard them.

So, moving on to a little over a year and a half ago, I began searching for a pair of Ohm’s. I was looking for a pair that had good condition cabinets. The drivers to me weren’t all that important as my research and a call to John at Ohm confirmed that he could get me set up with a number of driver solutions. I was happy to even find that Ohm was still doing business, as once they went away from dealer reps, I wasn’t sure if they were still around.

After a little searching, I came up with a pair of Walsh 2’s and eagerly awaited for them to arrive. In the meantime, I had already ordered from John a pair of the new Walsh 2000 series drivers and was playing around with them on a friend’s pair of 2’s. This gave me some time to do some small comparisons with the older drivers, and also get some break-in time on the new 2000’s.

Disaster then struck on the delivery of my Walsh 2’s. When I received them from Oops(UPS), one of the cabinets and driver had been crushed. It looked like the speaker had fallen off the back of the truck directly on the driver can. Not a pretty sight at all. I was sick, as was my friend that had sent them to me. So, back to the drawing board. I was quickly able to locate a pair of Walsh 3XO cabinets in near mint shape, and bought them on the spot. In talking with John at Ohm, he told me the 2000 series drivers would indeed work on the 3 cabinet as well, with a little modification to the driver board. As I thought about this, another idea came to mind. Why not just spring for the larger 3000 series driver for the 3XO cabinets and be done with it?

Another call to John and a set of 3000 drivers were sent to me. This was the first set of 3000 drivers that John had sold, and with this brought a couple of complications on the driver mounting. John and I worked through the couple of small problems that I had, and finally, I had a set of Walsh 3/3000’s! I might also add that I was able to get a pretty good impression of the Walsh 2/2000 or Super Walsh 2 as they are called, during the time I spent waiting and playing around with cabinets etc. Briefly, I can say that they are all cut from the same cloth, same great soundstaging, voicing etc. only that the 3000 and the larger 3XO cabinet would allow them to dig deeper. In the end, I think my decision to go with the 3000 in my room was a better choice.

Those of you with older cabinets looking to upgrade, installation of the new cans is very straight forward. The 2/2000 a bit more complicated, but nothing that a person who is handy with a screwdriver and a bit of patience can’t handle. The 2000 can is larger than the original 2 cans, so you get a driver board on which the new driver is mounted, and with 4 screws this is mounted on top of the baffle/driver board. You also receive taller outer grilles because of the additional height of the driver board/can, and also a new terminal cup and mounting board. The hardest part is knocking out the old terminal board and mounting the new one.

The 3000 series driver can is a direct replacement for the 3/3XO driver cans. It drops right into the existing mounting hole, four screws secure the driver to the baffle/driver board, and you also receive a new terminal board as well. The 3000 driver can may be slightly taller, and I believe the driver is a bit bigger inside as well, but the original grilles will work just fine. I might add too that the new drivers have a Molex plug, and just plug into the wiring going from the driver to the terminal board. Nice and easy.

I am also sure that the whole process could have been made easier-and I am sure that John would agree as well-that instead of me looking for cabinets myself, I could have just contacted John at Ohm and had him make me up a new set. But, I am pretty picky, and I wanted an extremely good condition pair of older pyramid-style cabinets. John can supply those as well depending on his stock of older cabinets. So, keep that in mind. All in all, even with a couple small difficulties on the driver mounting, I found that John was extremely great to work with, and the whole process went well. John is a wealth of information on all of Ohm’s products, setup, and history.

Okay, while this might not be considered a review, as I am not worthy of being a true “reviewer”, I will try to give some perspective of the Ohm’s along with a brief comparison of the original drivers as well. I might add that while my 3/3000 project was underway, I was able to find a pair of great condition original 3XO drivers. One of the cans metal grill was loose, but the foam surrounds and tweeters were in fabulous condition. I bought them up thinking about a small shoot-out against the new drivers. I am glad I had them on hand.

After spending a great deal of time with Ohm’s again, I realized what I truly love about these speakers, even after all these years. I find myself totally immersed in the music they make, and instead of music being thrown at me like so many dynamic forward-firing speakers do, the Ohm’s present music in a fashion that I find more realistic, more like true live performances. While I have heard the Ohm’s called too diffuse, and ill-defined, I don’t feel that to be the case at all. Instead, I much prefer the large soundstage and lifelike images that are produced by them. I use live music/concerts as a reference, and while I know this can be a crap-shoot of sorts, I find the Ohm to be more true to live music as many forward-firing speakers that I have listened to.

Speaking of the soundstage that is reproduced by the Ohm, another aspect I find so very realistic is the image height. The Ohm’s present the performers as a real live person in height, not some miniaturization of who is on stage. To me, this is another positive aspect that makes listening to them more fun, more involving and pleasurable. In reference, I have been used to Magnepans for quite some time and thought they would never be replaced in my main system. Image height was always one of the Maggies trademarks as well, and one I find to be important. The Ohm’s do this as good if not better in my listening room.

Of course the soundstaging that stretches out across the room, and image height that is so realistic wouldn’t be much good if the sonic characteristics of the speaker wasn’t good to begin with would it? Well, I can say that the treble is smooth and precise, has all the air you could want, and it doesn’t ever get spitty or sibilant. I would suppose that if you had some really terrible recording, it will only pass that along, but on well recorded music, the treble and midrange just shine. Voices, both male and female are reproduced with a clarity and accuracy that makes me want to hear more. I like to use K.D. Lang as one of my test vocals, and spin her CD “Ingenue” quite often. I also like Norah Jones, and have heard her live as well, the Ohm’s manage both of these vocalists with ease and clarity. I keep coming back for more.

Not to be outdone is the bass. It is solid as they come and not one-note or some blob of booming noise that so often robs music of it’s timing and structure. In living with my Magnepan MG-1’s and MMG’s, there is little bass to speak of, so the Ohm’s bass is a welcome addition to my music room. I find the Ohm’s much easier to place and integrate into the system than trying to get subs to work with the Maggies. I would say the 3000’s dig down into the mid 30 Hz range in my room, and that it is always tuneful and never out of control-unless the music of choice is to begin with. One thing of note too, I mentioned that originally I was going to fix up a pair of Walsh 2’s. I ended up with 3’s instead. If you are going to purchase a pair of Ohm’s, be certain to calculate your room size correctly and consult with John. The Walsh 2’s were just at the minimum requirement for getting the bass out of them that I needed. The 2’s struggled a bit in my room, the 3’s were far better. As with all of the Ohm’s, you get the same basic “family” of sound, same treble, midrange, but the larger cabinets obviously bring about better and deeper bass.

My music choices typically range from pop recordings to jazz, a little gospel and R&B thrown in. I can say that the Ohm’s shine on it all, and while they don’t bring attention to themselves, they just make great music, and that is what I am after. Are the Ohm’s after all these years outdated? No, even as I listened to the older drivers in the 2’s and the 3’s, the music was all still there. Maybe some rougher edges and not quite as detailed, but still wonderful transducers. Briefly, what I found with the new versus older drivers was a level of detail that the older drivers just didn’t have. The midrange and treble of the 1000 series of drivers is just better all around, greater detail, ability to play louder without becoming strident and shrill, and overall just smoother and more listenable. The bass on the newer drivers dig a bit deeper and is not wooly sounding. I thought the original driver bass could lack a bit of definition at times and just not sound as clear. Maybe even tubby at times. The new driver cures this in the 2000 and the 3000. Also I feel as if the speaker as a whole is more open, the soundstaging even more improved and open, and the older speakers were no slouches in that department to begin with.

The newer drivers are supposed to be a bit more efficient as well, I can’t really tell though. I drove them mainly with my Anthem MCA-20 rated at 200 WPC, and also my Audio Research D130 at 130 WPC. Both amplifiers drove them to levels that could be unbearable without any break-up from amp or speaker. I do feel that the Ohm’s do require some power/current behind them, and anyone considering them should watch what amplifier they have to power them. I didn’t find the Ohm to be fussy, they just loved the power. One other thing that goes along with this, I find they like to be played loud(er). While they didn’t lose focus or detail at lower volumes, they were just more fun and enjoyable at a higher volumes(not excessive).

To sum the Ohm’s up, when I think about what they do, is pretty simple. They just make great music, they pass along what is given them in the chain, no more, no less. And for me, they are one of the most realistic sounding speakers I have heard and had the pleasure to own. For me, that is the greatest compliment I can give to a speaker. I think that John Strohbeen has done a fantastic job in voicing these speakers! I come away from a listening session with a great admiration for what he has accomplished with these. I hope Ohm and John is around for a long time to come, I look forward to what he may come up with next. Now if I could just find a way to purchase the 5000’s!

If you are in the market for a pair of speakers, I would certainly urge you to give them a try. Too many people pass them by for whatever reason, not audiophile approved or whatever, but that is a shame. These are great speakers worthy of an audition, and with John’s extremely generous in-home trial period, it is hard to go wrong! If you are just in the market for upgrading your older Ohm’s, again, give John a call, there are many options and he will be happy to go through them with you.I believe the driver upgrade to be worth the money, and to be able to bring new life to an older pair of speakers is an even better deal. Sorry if this sounds like a full-on Ohm plug, it is of sorts, but also I am just a very happy customer! Enjoy the music, that is what we are hopefully after to begin with!

Tim
frazeur1
Glad to see there is activity on the Ohm Black Friday Event. When I received the email, it quickly sparked in interest to upgrade the Walsh 4's - which have been flawless for 26 years (wish I could say the same about me). Talked to John about some options and after considering all possibilities, I decided to order the 3000 driver upgrade kit. They should be here in a few weeks and then the burn-in begins. I am sure glad I maintained the cabinets in excellent condition since it appears I will be seeing them for the indefinite future.
Frazuer1, thanks for the advice-- I'm not in a hurry, but I'm also not parting with my 4's, so experienced opinions in optimizing my continuing enjoyment are appreciated.
Just a quick update. After purchasing my MWT omni's from John during his Black Friday sale, I have been spending a lot of time just using them as my main speakers in 2-channel mode for quite sometime now, mainly just getting a feel for what they can do. I have to say that they have been sounding so good, that I haven't even wanted to stick my 3/3000's in anytime soon.

I had purchased them mainly for use as surrounds in my home theater rig, which they perform wonderfully in that respect. My curiosity got the best of me though just wanting to hear how they would do as fronts only for 2-channel. Basically, I am really thrilled at how they do sound in this respect. I am quite amazed at what is achieved for a speaker that is so physically small, yet sounds so large and grown up. While it doesn't match the bass depth of my 3/3000, what is there is so very good, that again, I have been in no hurry to put the 3's back. I really did not know what to expect with the omni as my fronts, but I have to say that I like the presentation so very much, from the mids on up, I like it even more so than the 3's(This isn't to say the MWT's are better than the 3/3000-while they both have the same family sound, it is more of a presentation that I am enjoying more with the MWT omni).

I had given this some thought even before purchasing the MWT omni, trying to think about what presentation they would give, and I don't think I really had a good answer until I got them and tried it. I had initially thought there would be this massive wall of sound that would be coming at me, and that it might take away some instrument detail and locational cues. But I was wrong, instead the soundstage actually seems to take a bit of a step back away from me at the listening position, yet it has a more open soundstage. I also had thought that having the tweeter facing the ceiling, music would be sprayed all over, and image height might suffer in a negative, overblown way. Again, I was wrong. I have yet to find any of my music where this arrangement sounds un-natural at all. In fact, I have come to prefer this overall presentation to my 3's.

One aspect that this arrangement does somewhat diminish, and may be a deal breaker for some, is the way the traditional soundstaging is with the CLS driver versus the omni. With the omni pattern, you do give up some of that wide expanse and separation of instruments regardless of where you sit. If you happen to be sitting closer to the left speaker, you are going to hear it more and the music will not be as balanced as if you were sitting on-axis with the right speakers tweeter, and can clearly make out the whole stage effect still.

So, you may say, what is the point then of having an Ohm? Good question, and one I am still playing with. In my room, I am typically seated more or less in the sweet-spot anyway, especially when doing critical listening. This is where for whatever reason, I just seem to prefer the omni-pattern more, it just gives more open-ness to the music, and seems more 3-dimensional and realistic yet. The midrange/vocals just seem to be a little more realistic to me. Again, this is in my room, and with my gear. When I take my critical-listening hat off, I tend to not really care a whole lot about staging etc., but still enjoy the music. This omni-pattern doesn't take away the musicality at all, it still allows me to enjoy the performance very much.

I talked to John Strohbeen awhile after I had taken delivery of my MWT omni's. I told John what I had been doing and that I really enjoyed the omni presentation in my room. He said that a lot of people like that, and his only reservation was that on certain female vocals, he said things could sound a bit strange or off. Maybe John could elaborate a bit more on this. So far, I haven't found anything that I have found to be unrealistic or objectionable. Instrument detail and image height is every bit as good. I just keep on listening and enjoying them.

So, after listening for awhile more, and taking notes, I decidied to give John a call and see if he could make me up a set of omni 3000 drivers for my cabinets to try. I am very curious as to how these will work, larger driver and cabinet. I am anxious to hear if these will give me what I have in the MWT omni-I have no reason to doubt that they won't. So, a pair of 3000 omni-cans should be on the way soon if all goes well. It might take awhile for me to give an update on this, but no doubt you will be hearing more about this at some point I am sure.

I am still amazed at the little MWT, it is an incredible performer, one that I constantly think of as a best-buy anywhere near it's price range. I would definately make sure it is on your short-list if you are in the market for a small speaker that just sounds bigger than it has the right too, and yet just gets out of the way and sounds better than a lot of speakers that cost a good deal more money.

I would also like to hear from all of you that have joined in earlier about upgrades on your older cabinets etc., I hope all is working out for each of you. Enjoy the music! More later! Tim
Frazeur,

I'm very interested in your observations regarding omni configured OHM CLS drivers compared to standard configuration and will stay tuned.

Are your MWTs configured completely omni, ie upward facing tweeter and no wall facing damping inside the can?

Also I am interested in soundstage depth comparisons and comparisons regarding how much distance from the walls is needed for best results.

Thanks.
Map, my MWT's are configured as completely omni as they can be, tweeters pointing straight up, and no back wall damping, just the typical light layer on the inside of the can face all around. Not sure exactly what it is made of, but there you go.

I find that the soundstage depth doesn't change much with regard to wall placement, just the bass for the most part. I typically have found in my room that the MWT sounds great anywhere from about 18" out to a few feet, and adjusting the stage width until the music appears to be coming from two distinct speakers, then moving them back a bit to taste. I do find most of the Walsh/CLS speakers can be placed pretty far apart without collapsing the soundstage, but you can kind of go too far with it and then the stage takes on a little non-realistic sound/presentation. While I don't find them to be terribly picky as far as placement, playing around a little here and there does reap rewards, and every room will of course be somewhat different. The 3000's will also take a little more experimenting with that too once I get them.

My room currently is a bit odd, in that the wall that the Ohm's are along, has setbacks on the left side and then also along the right side of the speakers for a small entry area, and on the other side a hallway opening. So in a sense I don't have a total "long" wall in which the Ohm's are placed. So, almost out in the open to some extent, the right speaker having a bit more wall reinforcement for it. I am preparing to try another wall that is straight across/flat soon. Will keep you posted. Tim