Esoteric DV-50: Any cdp's Significantly better?


Is there are anyone out there who has compared the Esoteric DV-50 to a number of dedicated red book only players (or other universal's) and found one that is SIGNIFICANTLY better?

I stress significantly because in my humble opinion the redbook playback (if comparison unit is just a cd cd player only )must be significantly better to justify losing DVD-A, SACD and DVD-Video capability.

I keep hearing there are better one box solutions and being a die hard 2 channel fan I would sell my DV-50 if I found a player in the same price range that sounds significantly better. But every time I do an AB comparision to other well respected units the DV-50 has slayed each and every one.

So far, it has eaten the lunch of the Classe CDP-10, Ayre CX-7, Linn Ikemi, Cairn Fog Vers. 2, Cary 306/300, Arcam DV 27A and CD 33T, Myryad CD 600, etc. It even betters a Sony SCD 777ES/MF Tri-Vista 21 transport/dac combo that I previously owned. I'm only comparing the DV-50 to single box cd or universal players, but I just wanted to mention the Sony/MF combo. I'm sure there are some dac/transport combo's that will handily beat the DV 50.

Some may say that the DV 50 should beat all the above because the of price point ($5,500 vs. average price of $3,000 for the above players). But I disagree since conventional wisdom says that stand alone players (especially with the pedigree of those mentioned above) should produce better redbook than a universal player trying to be a jack of all trades. Only the DV 27A does video plus audio. By the way, I was very impressed with the 27A as just a cd player. Of all the above I would say the Ayre was the best.

Next on my list is the Electrocompaniet EMC 1UP and the Resolution Audio Opus 21. However, I must tell you I am really impressed with the DV 50 and all the great reviews are absolutely true. I've noticed that many people who are using it or comparing to other players are using the RCA analog outs instead of the balanced outs. There is a significant improvement in sound if you use the balanced outs and I'm only interested in hearing comments from people who have compared it against other players using the balanced outs on the DV-50.

My system components are as follows:

B&W N803's speakers & HTM-1 center
Cary Cinema 5 (5 x 200) amp
Anthem D1 Statement pre/pro
Esoteric DV 50
Acoustic Zen Satori Shotgun speaker wire
Nirvana SX balanced interconnects from DV-50 to Anthem
Acoustic Zen Matrix reference II interconnects from D1 to Cary
No after market power cords or isolation equipment

My system sounds great! Those who comment please make sure to specify what specific improvements you heard over the DV 50 and what cdp were you comparing it against.

AVGURU
avguru
"There is nothing out there in its stock for that outperform(s) it."

Does this include a stock analog system ?
Mgottlieb, I hope you are right...:-) It would probably be best to work with the UX-1 because it is universal player and has exactly the same transport as X-01.

Will see...:-)

Regards,
Alex
Reb1208, please note the "all solid state"...:-)

No, Meitner it not better than the best analog setups...but...$20K vinyl setup recorded on 96/24 DVD-A sounds the same trough my 3910 compared to the original...:-)...same system, same cables, same speakers. Who knows, if we can record the same vinyl trough the same $20K setup to SACD, then the results with Meitner can be the same. We won't know that till Meitner supports DVD-A though..:-)

Regards,
Alex
Fellow Audiophiles:

I am looking to wrap up my search for the ultimate, most musical cdp or universal in the next three weeks. As such, I left work early today and had a glorious four hour listening session with our beloved Esoteric X01. This was my second session with the X01 (the first one was 1 hour) and I just needed to verify in my mind what I thought I previously heard. I also took a second long listen to the Marantz SA 11 as I promised Reb 1208 I would. I'll report on that unit in a separate thread. First, a list of the music played:

Jacintha- Autumn Leaves
Norah Jones-Come go away with me (SACD)
Mighty Sam Mclain- Give it up to Love (JVC XRCD)
Ray Charles- Genius Loves Company- Concord Jazz SACD
Ana Caram- Blue Bossa- Chesky SACD
Diana Schuur- Music Is My Life-Atlantic HDCD
Marilyn Scott-NightCap- Prana Records
Isaac Hayes -Hot Buttered Soul-MFSL Gold Recording SACD
Art of the Ballad- Maple Shade Records
Madeline Peyroux- Careless Love-Rounder Records
Cassandra Wilson- Traveling Miles-Blue Note
Diana Krall- The Girl in the Other Room-Verve-SACD

The Equipment:

Speakers-Legacy Whispers
Pre-amp- Marantz 7SA ( $6,000)
Amps: 300 Watt Marantz 9SA ($7,500 each)
Esoteric X01
Black Diamond isolation Trey (not platform)
Top Gun Power Cord
Audioquest Sky and Harmonic Truth (switched back and forth)
No power conditioning

As you can see, the music selection was very extensive and varied. I have to give special mention to Ray Charles, Art of the Ballad, Marilyn Scott and Isaac Hayes and Jancintha. Rahy Charles SCAD is one of the most airiest, spacious and well recorded SACD's I've ever heard. Jacintha's voice is absolutely heavenly.

Marilyn Scott is a real stunner and is somewhat under the radar. I found it at Borders hidden behind bigger names. An unbelievable recording! Anybody whose heard a Maple Shade Recording knows they go for a very raw, live sound with well placed mikes and very little effects other than ambiance from the recording venue. This was also a stunner and sounded better than SACD..so real I could reach out and touch it.

But the best of all was (I'm still surprised) the Issac Hayes Hot buttered Soul. Only four songs on the whole album...Walk on By, By the Time I get to Phoenix, etc... This sounded just like I was at the studio when it was recorded. The most vinyl sounding SACD I have ever heard with unbelievable attack on Strings and horns and the guitar solo's burned right through the mix like I was there live! Definitely recommended. The worst of the above was Diana Krall. I love her music..and this album...but there is nothing special about the SACD version of this cd. It only sounds marginally better than the redbook version.

Now, the review:

The X01 in redbook is simply unbelievable! The soundstage is tight and extremely well focused. Unlike the DV 50 where the soundstage is a bit too forward, the bass is a little heavy handed and the dynamics are slightly over the top (See Reb 1208, we do agree on a few things!) they have reined in the X01 to compensate for those weaknesses. The sound is more laid back and noticeably less forward, the bass is even handed and doesn't over take the rest of the soundstage and the dynamics are not over done. The sound is so, so smooth and put together...nothing ever gets out of its place.

When there is a trio of horns playing in harmony at the same time you can easily pick out the timbre of each horn.
In other words, it plays as one piece but you can pick out which horn is which...unlike other cdp's I've heard where it sounds like one mass of horns jumbled together. Strings and synthethic strings well up from a backdrop of pure blackness and just swoosh into the soundstage, never overtaking the front images (unless recorded that way) but laying a foundation of warmth and texture that is just totally eveloping and absorbing.

The imaging is spot on and special mention goes to the spacing. Again, each instrument has room on the soundstage without crowding the other out. The soundstage is very wide. Also, if the recording venue has ambiance or reverb this player will pick it up beautifully. The Mapleshade recording was a good example of that.

Finally (And I want to make sure everybody gets this) the SACD playback of this unit is super, super phenomenal..the best I've ever heard. Air, huge soundstage, analog sounding on the better recorded SACD's, soundstage depth and even better timbre fecognition (you can hear the skin on the drums, on piano you can hear the hammer of the keys inside the piano..that's also true for some redbook cd's that had piano solo's). It just sounds so real!!

Now, for the weaknesses:

This unit does not sound analog so those looking for an analog sound need not apply. It sounds like a well aged, fine digital wine. Very smooth, very sophisticated but still digital. Sometimes cymbals and brushes have an extra sheen or sparkle...but what's amazing is that if you listen closely you can hear the separation of the strands on the brush as each one opens up and swipes across the symbol. Some players (and many audiophiles like this) tend to push this type of detail back further in the soundstage or mask the sound behind other instruments so it doesn't draw attention to itself. Not the X01. I'm not even sure if I would call it a "sheen" but moreso drawing out extra detail.

The bass is very tight but but still could be better defined. I've yet to hear any cd player do bass better than the Ayre CX-7. But unlike the DV 50 the slam is in proportion to the detail. The bass definitely goes deep.

One thing I should mention is that the X01 is not as airy or open as some might like. Because it brings out so much detail it tends to fill the soundstage more than other units. The old adage "less is more" definitely applies here. Other players that aren't as detailed "seem" to have a more open and airy presentation because quite simply they don't have the resolution of the X01. These players could also give one the impression that the background is blacker and the noise floor is quieter. You'd be surprised at how much is going on in a song even during a quiet interlude. The X01 does not add air to these type of passages. Some audiophiles may not like this. Where the X01 somewhat makes up for this is in its smoothness and a natural ambiance it exudes.

Finally, in my opinion the X01 is very musical..but in my listening session only sometimes made the speakers disappear (with eyes closed) and is still primarily one dimensional instead of producing two and threee dimensional images like the Exemplar, APL and Modwright Sony. Don't get me wrong, there is plenty of soundstage depth, width and and height but rarely that sense of being there with living, breathing images.

I'm convinced now after listening to the APL, Exemplar and Modwright Sony that these qualities are due to the tubes. The X01 and Meitner gear may be the best digital has to offer but it just can't give you the live feeling the way tubes can.

From my recent recollection and notes from hearing the modded cdp's here are my comparisions (I have yet to do a head to head between the modded units and the X01):

X01 vs Exemplar 3910

The X01 is more detailed, smoother and even handed (less subject to dynamic swings). Imaging is better and the soundstage is tighter.

The Exemplar puts more air around the instruments (therefore sounds more open, spacing is about equal and throws two and three dimensional images on a regular baasis. But the Exemplar sometimes give an unnatural timbre to instruments and instruments can sound thin at times (occassionally, not often). I'm talking piano's and guitars.

Verdict: I like the X01 but I could easily see where others could choose the Exemplar.

X01 vs. APL

Both units are equally detailed, vocals are more upfront and life-like on the APL, tonally richer than the X01, more air, spacing is about even, APL is more dynamic. X01 is smoother, more accurate, more inner-detail, APL bass is better and is overall more dimensional and more musical.
APL has that you are there quality.

Verdict: APL is the more musical player. I could however see someone choosing the X01 as its also very musical but in a different way, just not quite as satisfying as the APL.

X01 vs. Sony Modwright (or now Denon Modwright)

The Modwright player is flat out the most musically satisfying player I have ever heard. Tonally rich, harmonics out the ying-yang, spacing is incredible...each instrument has its space and the soundstage is never crowded. (This asset is in my opinion what really sets this player apart) bass is detailed yet tonally rich with slam, instrument timbre's seem to be very accurate (i.e piano sounds like piano), vocals ar real and life-like. Great imaging!

I sometimes wonder if the Modwright is adding harmonmic textures to music that are not really there in the recording studio because I've never heard anything so harmonically and tonally rich in my life. So full, never thin. Yet due to the timbral accuracy (tenor sax sounds like tenor, alto sounds like alto, easy to differentiate different pionos i.e Yamaha vs. Bosendofer, etc) I can't say the sound is not accurate.

Verdict: Betters the X01 in almost every cagtegory. Extremely musical. I wish I could afford both..but given only one I'd go with the Sony.

Just wanted to share this with everyone. If you read my first review (in this same thread) of the X01 nothing really changed. I now feel more comfortable with my knowledge and understanding of this unit.

When you include the price differences between the X01 and the modded units the mod's are very hard to pass up!

Next Up: I'm in search of Meitner gear to audition

AVGURU


I have been following this thread since mid November. I am a happy owner of a DV-50S (for now anyway), and have only one thing to say...You guys are BERSERK! I am lovin it!

OK, you are past the DV-50, but many of us are living vicariously through these "tests."

I am also glad that the bashing has been kept reeled in.

Thanks,

Dave