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How to tame the midrange???

I am almost there with my system, except that the midrange sounds harsh, grainy, and exceptionally digital. Female vocals in particular. It actually sounds like clipping, but I can hear it at any volume level. However, the problem is more noticable as volume is increased. I listen to a lot of acoustic music with prominent vocals, so this is a real problem.
The room is 26 x 28 x 9. Furnishings are 6 piece HT type seating and carpet....nothing else. No treatments at all. I/C cables are Radio Shack's best. I plan to do room treatments and better cables last.
I am thinking a good DAC might smooth things out a bit. Or maybe seperate 2 channel from HT by adding a good 2 channel preamp with HT pass through. (the front speakers are already on seperate amps) Maybe a preamp with tubes. I suppose having the Denon CDP modified is an option as well. My focus is 2 channel. HT sounds good enough as is, and is a low priority. Budget is around 5000.00, but flexible.
The gear is:
Sunfire Theatre Grand II processor
Denon 3910 ....no mods
Classe Seven Hundred Mono blocks for fronts
Adcom 300x7 for center and surrounds (all bi-amped)
B&W 800N fronts
B&W HTM-1 center
B&W CDM9-NT surrounds
Another consideration is that I listen to Comcast Music Choice digital music channels quite a bit through their Motorola box. I think that makes a stronger case for adding a good DAC. I am new at this and rely exclusively on Goner's advise. Your thoughts are greatly appreciated.
baffled
sogood51
2,157 posts
 
"the grain in the midrange comes from the tweeked up treble for the hard of hearing"

HeHe, thats nice of them to build speakers for the hard of hearing....wondering why they don't use this in their ad copy.

Dave
jafox
1,348 posts
 
Baffled: You have so many things to try along the way. And I suspect you will discover huge refinements as you seek to determine the original problem with the midrange anomolies. Rather than guess with so many changes, what I would suggest you do is try to find someone in your area, maybe an A'gon member, with lots of experience in speaker placement, differences between cables, line stages and DACs. Someone who also understands the benefits of power conditioners, room treatments and isolation would be an even greater asset.

I have befriended a couple local A'gon members and they have thrown so many ideas and suggestions my way that have lead to major improvements in my system. And they were right on from the start so I did not have to try things over and over to get them right. Such relationships become great friendships and both sides learn much from such an exchange. It's a great feeling to help out another audiophile.

A good relationship with a dealer too is a good idea but they will most likely steer you to the products they carry.

So indicate where you live and maybe someone here will offer to come over and give you some tips and who knows where that might lead.

John
gmood1
1,251 posts
 
velocitydls@yahoo.com ,

No where in my post did I mention Baffled using two preamps.I said to swap out the processor for a real preamp.
Yes Meridian processors are great..for movies that is. For music these units suck! His focus is two channel not multi channel music. Maybe you should reread the entire thread before singling out a poster.

How will changing to a good tube preamp and going to a good Dac with a better power supply than the dvd player make the speakers sound bright? Guy you have no idea what your talking about. Maybe some of the B&W stuff is tipped up in the treble..will not argue that. I listened to an older pair of 800 series a few months back at a friends home. These speakers didn't have the tipped up tweeter as you describe.

I've owned a Meridian Stack and it will not give the performance in two channel as a dedicated preamp...sorry no dice!
It's apparent you've only listened to multi channel and HT.LOL

IME most of the harshness and grain comes from crappy opamps and noisy/ bad power supplies in the equipment upstream with poor filtering. Bad connections can cause this also. Hardly ever is it the speaker that causes grain. Especially a speaker of this caliber.
baffled OP
106 posts
 
Jafox......that's a great idea. I am in Silver Spring, Maryland. Just outside of DC. If anyone wants to help me spend some hard earned cash, c'mon over! If you have been into this hobby for more than a year, your knowledge is no doubt superior to mine. My e mail is ahcjmh1@prodigy.net

Gmood1.... As I was reading the response from Velocitydls I knew his advice went against the grain of everything I have learned here over the past year. As much as I appreciate that he took the time to try to help, I think he is either a very proud Meridian owner ( nothing wrong with that), or a Meridian seller(Hmmmm), or just not that well informed. Either way, I am sticking to plan A as outlined above.
I have settled on the Audio Mirror DAC and hope to place the order today. After reading about it here and elsewhere I have learned that it tones down and smooths out the treble without sounding too tube like. Also does bass well. There were enough descriptions of the sound that I felt ok with buying it before I hear it. Also, the descriptions were the same in every review I read.
The preamp will be a different story. I plan to listen to a few preamps in my system before I buy. Aesthetix Calypso is on my short list. Is there another preamp I should be considering? Hopefully for less than the 4500.00 Calypso? Balanced outputs and a remote are the only absolute requirements I am aware of at this time.
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shadorne
7,333 posts
 
I am almost there with my system, except that the midrange sounds harsh, grainy, and exceptionally digital. Female vocals in particular. It actually sounds like clipping, but I can hear it at any volume level. However, the problem is more noticable as volume is increased. I listen to a lot of acoustic music with prominent vocals, so this is a real problem.

I simply find it hard to believe that such good equipment gives you a "grainy sound" like "clipping". What you describe is so very much like distortion...and for significant distortion in such good equipment, well, my only guess would be that something may be damaged.

Some people describe over-driven tweeters as sounding as if there was "sand in the tweeters", provided of course, they have not completely blown. Of course, damaged equipment can output all kinds of distortion, depending on the exact nature of the problem; and if the tweerers were damaged then it might not affect your highs but produce a lower frequency distorted ouput which mildy affects what you hear in the critical mid range (where hearing is most perceptive).

Why do I suspect tweeters most?.....because you report something that is annoying and distorting but clearly not significant enough for you to immediately identify the problem. In my experience the tweeter generally does the least work and it can therefore be the hardest to detect when it has a slight problem....certain harmonics may excite the failure mode/distortion more than others...for your situation, it sounds like female vocals brings out your problem.
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