New DAC Not a Dramatic Improvement?


Ok, So after much thought and asking questions here on audiogon as to whether I should get a new cdp or DAC, I decided on a DAC because I plan on implementing a music server with a Mac Mini. I got it last week and hooked it up so that I could do A/B comparisons with my cdp as is, and through the DAC. My cdp is a 1-2 year old Onkyo dv-sp405 dvd/cd player. At first I was impressed. The bass and vocals were more defined, and there seemed to be more space. Not a lot more space, but just a little bit more openess. The vocals were also moved forward in the soundstage and had more thickness. The thing is, none of these things were very dramatic. THe more time I have sat and listened and done comparisons on many cd's I find the results vary. On some cd's there is significant improvement, and on others, hardly noticeable. In a blind test, do I think I could reliably say whether I was listening to the cdp directly or through the DAC? Let's just say I wouldnt bet my life on it. I probably wouldnt even bet 20$ on it, unless I could hear the two back to back, and on some recordings, not even then.

Now I know about diminishing returns, but I would think the difference between a 150$ dvd/cdp and a 2K$ DAC would be pretty obvious. On top of that, My DAC is hooked up with Transparent Cables (MW Super) and my cdp with 50$ Monster Cables.

Continuing.. I expect some people with say that a good dac needs a good transport. Some will probably say that the dac is being held back by the onkyo as a transport. I have also compared the cdp through the DAC against apple lossless files played from my computer through USB. They are identical.

What could be the weak link? I do not want to say what DAC I am using but lets just say it is a very recent one and around 2K. It is from a very respected company and very well reviewed. My other gear is a McIntosh MA6450 integrated, gallo ref 3.1 speakers, transparent cables. Could it be that my amp is not very revealing? I am thinking about selling the DAC and getting a cheaper one (DAC MAGIC, PS AUDIO DL3) since I will need one for my Mac Mini anyway. Honestly, I just dont think I can justify having 2K in my current DAC for the minimal difference.

Thanks for any insight you can provide.
farjamed
Tvad: Thanks for your advice. I think you hit the nail on the head with your comment about the "Ah-Ha!" moment. I was expecting that when I got my current DAC and it just wasnt there. I'm not sure I want to go back to just the onkyo cdp, but I'd like to find the DAC out there that makes me go Ah-Ha!. My suspicion, and worry, is there may be nothing (at least in my price range) that will be do that.
Don't listen to these guys telling you your system or your listening skills are not good enough. That's a load of crap, the Gallo speakers are plenty good enough and I'm sure you are, too.

Generally speaking, one-box players have much less intrinsic jitter to deal with than transport-DAC solutions. Nevertheless, I'm surprised at your results. What sort of cable are you using between the transport and the DAC?
Objective1: Not a dumb question and honestly.. I am not sure. It is not brand new in that I am not the first owner. I bought it here on Audiogon. 2 mos old I believe. How much its first owner played it I am not sure, but in 2 mos. it is very possible it wasnt used much. Actually a very good point... I am going to start leaving my cdp playing when I am not at the house to break it in, just in case it hasnt been already. Thanks.
Farjamed, in all honesty I believe there's a lot of performance in your $2K DAC that your system is not allowing to come forth. Spending more money on a more expensive DAC is not going to yield results.

IMO, your McIntosh integrated amp is probably limiting your system's resolution. If you want to hear more resolution...the "Ah-Ha!" moment is going to come with more refined amplification.

Sorry if this seems too blunt. I was trying to avoid commenting on your system in general, but your last post regarding not hearing a benefit unless you spent more money on a different DAC indicated to me you were headed down the wrong path.
If you want to hear a serious difference, go to ebay and purchase a VALAB DAC for $200. They come up for sale avery couple of weeks. Then drive it with a low-jitter source. Not your CD player. Simple, NOS DAC's are superb, but only if driven with low-jitter digital.

Jitter is #1 problem. D/A converter distortion and noise is #2 problem. Preamp noise and distortion is #3 problem. Lick all of these and you will have amazing sound quality. Not HiFi anymore, but music.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio