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New DAC Not a Dramatic Improvement?

Ok, So after much thought and asking questions here on audiogon as to whether I should get a new cdp or DAC, I decided on a DAC because I plan on implementing a music server with a Mac Mini. I got it last week and hooked it up so that I could do A/B comparisons with my cdp as is, and through the DAC. My cdp is a 1-2 year old Onkyo dv-sp405 dvd/cd player. At first I was impressed. The bass and vocals were more defined, and there seemed to be more space. Not a lot more space, but just a little bit more openess. The vocals were also moved forward in the soundstage and had more thickness. The thing is, none of these things were very dramatic. THe more time I have sat and listened and done comparisons on many cd's I find the results vary. On some cd's there is significant improvement, and on others, hardly noticeable. In a blind test, do I think I could reliably say whether I was listening to the cdp directly or through the DAC? Let's just say I wouldnt bet my life on it. I probably wouldnt even bet 20$ on it, unless I could hear the two back to back, and on some recordings, not even then.

Now I know about diminishing returns, but I would think the difference between a 150$ dvd/cdp and a 2K$ DAC would be pretty obvious. On top of that, My DAC is hooked up with Transparent Cables (MW Super) and my cdp with 50$ Monster Cables.

Continuing.. I expect some people with say that a good dac needs a good transport. Some will probably say that the dac is being held back by the onkyo as a transport. I have also compared the cdp through the DAC against apple lossless files played from my computer through USB. They are identical.

What could be the weak link? I do not want to say what DAC I am using but lets just say it is a very recent one and around 2K. It is from a very respected company and very well reviewed. My other gear is a McIntosh MA6450 integrated, gallo ref 3.1 speakers, transparent cables. Could it be that my amp is not very revealing? I am thinking about selling the DAC and getting a cheaper one (DAC MAGIC, PS AUDIO DL3) since I will need one for my Mac Mini anyway. Honestly, I just dont think I can justify having 2K in my current DAC for the minimal difference.

Thanks for any insight you can provide.
farjamed
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mapman
15,679 posts
 
Farjamed,

In general, I do think a change in amp makes a bigger difference in sound than a change from one SS DAC alone to another.

I try a tube DAC and if that doesn't improve things enough then it may be time to consider another amp with those Gallos.
farjamed OP
33 posts
 
Newbee: I am not sure if I am misunderstanding you, or maybe you are not speaking to me in your recent post. You mention a 2000$ TRANSPORT and a cheap DAC, when in fact my situation is the other way around. I have a 2000$ DAC and cheap transport. From everything I read I figured this would be the better way to go, especially since my goal is to build a music server around a Mac Mini. The reason I feel the transport is not an issue is because the quality of sound I am getting from the DAC using my Laptop/apple lossless is to my ears, the same as the cdp into the DAC.

Cerrot: The only reason I do not mention the DAC I am using is because I really dont think it matters. Chances are most people responding to this thread have no experience with it and will only go by what they have read about it (which is all very very positive). Also because I do not want to start negative hype on a product when it may not be the products fault whatsover, but something else in my system. I have also dealt with the people at this company and they are extremely helpful and responsive and do not want to start any negativity towards them at all.
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mapman
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Far,

There is no good reason to not tell us which DAC! No one is going to treat any more or less fairly than any other product that gets discussed on this site. More specific information can only help, not hurt!

Also the more I think about it, the more I'm starting to think that the Mc integrated may not be the best match for the Gallos and that could well be the bottleneck as Tvad suggested.

If true, that just means that the amp might be matched better to the speaks, a synergy issue, not that there is anything inherently wrong with either DAC or amp alone.

WHat is the Mc integrateds rated power output into 4 ohms compared to 8? I'm guessing it may not be that much higher, ie not close to double. If so, that alone could be your issue that keeps the $2000 DAC or any source from realizing full potential.
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shadorne
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Thickness in vocals = jitter, IMHO. It is quite possible you have more jitter from your digital out of your CD/DVD player than if you were to use it as is with its analog outs. If you had a Benchmark DAC1 you would not have to worry too much about jitter from a low cost transport. In your case, perhaps you need a re-clocker. Not all DAC's are equally good at jitter reduction - this aspect of a DAC can vary significantly.
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mapman
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Assuming the Mc integrated driving the Gallos is the issue, here's one cost effective solution that could work for significant improvement at perhaps even lower cost.

Sell:

DAC - $2000
Mc Integrated- $1000

Buy (used):
Juicy Music Peach Tube Pre-amp - $800
Musical fidelity A3CR amp - $600
mhdt Paradisea tube DAC (more analog sounding/reduced/low jitter)- $500 or
Benchmark SS DAC (high detail/low jitter SS) - $900

This leaves as much as $1100 dollars to play with from there if needed (probably not).

Or you can try to tweak source and amp further one step at a time and perhaps still get where you want eventually.

Cheers!
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