Can Mac/PC compete with High End CDT??


Dear All,

I want to believe (do you?) that the Mac or PC approach can work, at least be good enough. Being that my prime source is analog digital music is secondary but at the same time compulsory for recent and actual recordings.

Reading reviews and opinions floating around online I was curious to hear for myself in a high end system, a sort of A/B singular test was needed; away from commercial pressures and inexperienced ears.

Full of great expectation I head to a fellow audiophile's den, both of us motivated to get to the bottom of this question ourselves.

So we got ourselves organized and ended up with a promising menu: Esoteric P0, Weiss Dac 2 D/A converter, Mac with Amara/iTunes then Kondo Dac with the Esoteric P0 and then Weiss Dac 2 D/A converter using fire wire interface from Mac/Amara/itunes via the Kondo DAC.

All the “virtual music” was obviously uncompressed format.

Preamp Absolare, amp New Audio Frontiers Ref 845 and Acapella Triolon Excalibur and some very good cables.

Being used to the sound of Kondo electronics and Goto horns that furnish my listening room, fed by micro seiki SX8000, CEC TL0x Cd transport at 1st I must say that I was disappointed with the sound that the P0 was delivering via the Weiss Dac.

I will not be long-winded here: this was not good. The sound seemed broken, out of pace, lousy trebles, one-dimensional bass and very nasal voices.

The resolution of the electronics and speakers told the cruel truth in this 70m² dedicated listening room. No fine-tuning I have ever encountered could solve this even with the widest stretch of imagination.

So the Mac/Amara/iTunes? Okay no gain no pain! Here it was no pain all gain, I mean, it sounded the same including the flaws but with the added advantage of mac based music selection as opposed to cd loading. This seemed promising, made me jump to the conclusion that the culprit was the Weiss DAC, not the fire wire interface.

So in goes the Kondo DAC driven by the P0, okay! I will lack vocabulary here it is truly amazing. My host and I within the 1st seconds looked at each other, not even in the listening seats, we agreed with each other without saying a word! Then we let the CDs play on, simple as that!

We kind of played around here knowing deep down that the next step was the “juge de paix” (for those who don’t master French that is “peace judgment”).

So we wired the Weiss Firewire/spdif interface to the Kondo Dac using the Mac/Almara/iTunes.

As it stands I had spoken to Daniel Weiss (owner/designer of Weiss Audio) a few days before and he explained to me that CD transport and Mac/PC was fundamentally the same thing; delivering 0 and 1 and the interface was just passing those 0s and 1s to the DAC.

So? I may have to repeat myself here : The sound seemed broken, out of pace, lousy trebles, one dimensional bass and very nasal voices.

The Kondo DAC was telling us all about the sources. I walk way from this with knowing that Mac/PC is not ready to replace a CD transport in high end system dedicated to experiencing music and all the emotional treasures that it has in store for us to enjoy.

So what does this mean? I think that in certain preamp/amp speaker combinations the hard disk be it mac or PC may work and certain reviewers will confirm this. However, if that system resolution comes to change, that its goes up the ladder, then the flaws in this approach will become apparent.

It would be advisable to ascertain your future with music and the associated audio equipment before marching towards the immaterial virtual music world.

Well a good friend of mine who hides in the shadows of the Bavarian landscape warned that no hard disk system could compete with the better CD transports, he is perfectly correct!

Tim
soundlistening
TVAD, I have only seen one in Nashville. I was heavily treated with real monitor speakers and extended bass and good balanced cabling.

In fact, there is still a good deal of studio recording happening in Hollywood, although there are many home studios as you say. I have seen a few home studios as well. They are not as well treated acoustically as are the professional studios, but sometimes the lack of acoustic treatment in the home studios is purposeful.

Or because they are indifferent to capturing a performance and only interested in a recording that is loud and which can correct for their being out of tune.
Or because they are indifferent to capturing a performance and only interested in a recording that is loud and which can correct for their being out of tune.
Tbg (System | Threads | Answers)
I'll offer an example.

One composer/musician I know has a fairly well treated home studio in which he records guitar. For recording voice and the occasional solo horn, he often uses a hallway or an untreated room because of the natural ambiance it adds to the recording.

Recently, I saw the film "It Might Get Loud". There is a segment where Jimmy Page tells a story about the large country mansion where Led Zeppelin recorded many tracks including "When the Levee Breaks". This song has deep, chest pounding drums. A big, fat sound with lots of reverb. In fact, John Bonham placed his drums in the foyer of the mansion which has an atrium several stories high and hard surfaces everywhere. It was this physical space that provided the magnificent drum sound. None of it was done with electronics, according to Page.
"Kijanki, no I am talking about the magnetic field caused by the signal current flow within the component."

I'm not questioning that vibration of electronics might affect the sound somehow, but saying that "it seems logical" that soft bass comes from soft footers is plain stupid.
I recently built a music server based upon the cics Memory Player (cMP2). It has been both very rewarding and eye/ear opening to say the least.

In the past, I have tried using my daily office computer to stream uncompressed audio to my Playback Design MPS-5, but I always found the sound quality was boring and lifeless compared to discs played directly on the player. I quickly dismissed computer transports as a serious audiophile alternative, but a few months ago I came across a discussion on cMP2 and decided that I would see what all the fuss was about.

The philosophy behind cMP2 is to have a barebones computer configuration with an audio player whose goal is to maximize sound quality at the expense of convenience and features. It is not for everyone as it requires users to be a somewhat tech savvy and the user interface is a very basic and clunky compared to standard Win/Mac applications.

cMP2 consists of a recipe for putting together and tweaking the computer hardware and bios settings. It comprises two distinct applications: cMP and cPlay. cMP is meant to replace the standard Windows shell and cPlay is the audio player application. Both cMP and cPlay can run under Windows XP/Vista/7 without any of the recommended system optimizations; however, the sound quality will be no better than using something like Windows Media Player.

When I first loaded the OS and the cMP & cPlay applications onto my new computer, I played some audio tracks just to ensure that all the components were working and that I was getting some sound. The sound quality was the usual dull, murky, lifeless audio that I have always associated with computer based transports. So I started making changes to the bios to severely under-clock and under-volt the system. Also disabled all extraneous on-board peripherals that were not required for a music server (eg. power management, floppy, firewire, LAN, etc ...). Immediately, you could hear a big improvement in sound quality. The music came alive with greater detail and transparency ... but it was still a far way off from the sound I get from disc. Next procedure was the Windows optimization steps by disabling all windows services that are not required for our music server. Note that these steps will result in loss of regular windows functionality, but that is of little significance for our intended goals. Again, sound quality takes a significant leap forward and system latency starts to really improve without all the extraneous services running in the background (optimized system around 3-5 usec versus 70-100 usec on my daily computer).

The best way to run cMP is to have it configured as the replacement shell for XP/Vista/7. This avoids extra overhead and processes that are loaded with the standard Windows shell. I don't really see any advantage of using cMP if you do not use it in this manner. cPlay is an ASIO player that loads the song into memory before playback so that access to the disk I/O is not required during playback. It allows for up to 24/192 playback with either 145db/121db SNR or SoX upsampler. You can also configure cMP to use an alternative player to cPlay if you choose.

I was originally using digital coax to connect the music server to the MPS-5 and what a big mistake that was. Computer systems are inherently noisy and the coax connection was causing detrimental effects on the overall sound of my system. I never realized how bad it was until I turned off my music server and noticed how much better everything sounded. I have always refrained from using Toslink based on unfavourable comments by many people, but was I ever wrong with this assumption. The galvanic isolation of toslink resulted in superior performance as compared to a pricey Transparent Ref Digital coax in this particular instance. Proximity of the computer server to the audio gear is also very important as the CPU and nasty switching ATX power supply generate significant amounts of RFI.

I can happily say that my little experiment has been a great success. The SQ is getting very close to that of playing discs directly on the MPS-5. I am still slowly tweaking the bios settings as well as the windows configuration trying to remove the last bit of extraneous windows processes without causing the system to freeze. I also believe my next significant step will be the replacement of the switching power supply to a robust linear power supply that I am having Gilbert Yeung of Blue Circle design and build for me. I'm sure once that has been done, the sound quality will be the same if not better than playing discs on the MPS-5.

If you are an audiophile that loves to tweak, then you will really enjoy the self satisfaction of building one of these machines. If you do decide to assemble one of these servers, then I would recommend configuring your system for dual boot so that you can switch between a full service Windows OS and the heavily streamlined cMP2 OS that can do very little but play beautiful music.

System Specs:
Intel Core 2 Quad Q8300
Gigabyte GA-EG45M-UD2H m-ATX motherboard
Kingston DDR-2 PC2-8500 2GB Single Channel
Antec 550W Earthwatts
WD 2TB Green 3.5" HD
RME HDSP 9623 Audio Card
Samsung 22x DVD
Themaltake ISGC-400 CPU cooler
Zalman HD160XT Plus HTPC

Windows XP
cics cMP & cPlay
Kijanki, if the component resonates on soft feet, you have the component and its wires moving in the very magnetic field that their circuit produces with some delay. This is why isolation can so improve a component. Nothing stupid about this.