Macm - Once again you said precisely what needed to be said without being uncivil or vindictive. Thank you. For the record, my earlier comments were not directed at Trelja's post in particular, though I too feel he crossed the line from offering an honest opinion to engaging in irresponsible negative campaigning. "Refreshing honesty"? Such arogant, absolutist, matter-of-fact criticisms -- based on a brief and unreliable listening session -- are not only unfair, they can be devastating to low-volume, high-end audio companies trying to explore new directions and advance the art of music reproduction. I'm actually surprised a few other Audiogoners tried to defend such rash statements. Tubegroover - I've valued your posts in the past, but perhaps you should read Trelja's remarks again: he never suggested the Talon speakers at the show needed to be broken-in or that poor set-up or room acoustics could have played a role in shaping his impressions. Instead, he stated categorically, and without allowing for any other explanations, that it is a "lousy sounding speaker." Since Trelja was aware that there are many other experienced listeners who are quite impressed with Talon speakers (see, e.g., his post trashing Legacy speakers in the 9-11-00 thread "Talon Khorus"), he should have at least allowed for the possibility that what he heard at the show wasn't the speaker's fault. He did not. Trelja could also have allowed for the possibility that maybe he just didn't like the unembellished, highly-revealing sound of the Talon because he personally favors warmer speakers like Vandersteen (which he praised) and Coincident (which he owned). No mention that this might have played a role in shaping his impressions either.
I wasn't able to attend the NY show, so I can't say how the various products criticized in this thread sounded as they were set up for the see-it, touch-it crowds. I'm sure many of the products did sound poor given the circumstances. But people need to keep in mind that such ad hoc venues are not reliable testing grounds and that each of the products in question may have real merits when tried objectively in a proper setting.
I haven't suggested before, and I'm not suggesting now, that people should censor their opinions. I do, however, feel we each have a responsibility to ensure the way we state an opinion is not slanderous or unfairly critical. I also believe each of us has a responsibility to discuss the possible factors that may have led us to a negative opinion of a product, particularly where the opinion is potentially very damaging and contrary to other reported opinions. As Macm astutely noted, it's not so much what you say but how you say it. Nevertheless, this is an open forum, and if you chose to act irresponsibly and severely criticize a product based on a quick listen in a marginal environment, without describing possible contributing factors, that's up to you. Just don't expect me to trust your opinions or advice ever again. And Trelja, if you're upset by this criticism of your post -- made from a few of your remarks and without my taking the time to get to know more about you -- perhaps this will help drive the point home. You've lost my respect, and since you are "NOT going to change" your shameful ways, you won't be getting it back. Don
I wasn't able to attend the NY show, so I can't say how the various products criticized in this thread sounded as they were set up for the see-it, touch-it crowds. I'm sure many of the products did sound poor given the circumstances. But people need to keep in mind that such ad hoc venues are not reliable testing grounds and that each of the products in question may have real merits when tried objectively in a proper setting.
I haven't suggested before, and I'm not suggesting now, that people should censor their opinions. I do, however, feel we each have a responsibility to ensure the way we state an opinion is not slanderous or unfairly critical. I also believe each of us has a responsibility to discuss the possible factors that may have led us to a negative opinion of a product, particularly where the opinion is potentially very damaging and contrary to other reported opinions. As Macm astutely noted, it's not so much what you say but how you say it. Nevertheless, this is an open forum, and if you chose to act irresponsibly and severely criticize a product based on a quick listen in a marginal environment, without describing possible contributing factors, that's up to you. Just don't expect me to trust your opinions or advice ever again. And Trelja, if you're upset by this criticism of your post -- made from a few of your remarks and without my taking the time to get to know more about you -- perhaps this will help drive the point home. You've lost my respect, and since you are "NOT going to change" your shameful ways, you won't be getting it back. Don