$800 Cartridge Shootout and Upgrade Path

Dougdeacon,

Let me say that your postings have helped me a lot. And also let me say that I apologize if my last post to you sounded like a district attorney in a cross examination. That was never my intention.

My interest in the Moerch began with the review done by Paul Seydor for TAS, and has continued with the many favorable reviews it has received in the Vinyl Asylum. Nevertheless, the Shroeder, Graham, Triplanar, and SME arms have all been received with even more enthusiasm because they represent the state of the art for that sytle of arm. The Moerch is one step below the best offerings from these companies. I think many would acknowledge that. At the same time, however, it is cheaper while still delivering very good performance, interchangeable arm wands, and good looks. But the Triplanar is a handsome and high-performing arm indeed, maybe one of the best.

In an earlier post, you mentioned that an uninterrupted tonearm cable would provide the best fidelity. That may be true. I was curious how much fidelity loss would we hear? Or maybe it would be something that would completely escape my attention?

Of course I was kidding about not telling you about buying the Shelter 501. : >) I am sure that you won’t be troubled by what my final decision will be.

I must admit it’s downright frustrating that an expensive tonearm is limited to a few desirable phono cartridges. The OL Encounter will work great with the Shelter, Denon, and Koetsu, but not so well with the ZYX. Ahhhhhhhhhh! : > (

My floor is a heavily padded, wall-to-wall carpet over four inches of rebar-reinforced concrete on top of earth. The floor is very stable and solid. My rack is steel and glass and is quite sturdy and heavy. The turntable would be placed upon a double-decker, laminated hardwood base in which sand would be the damping material between the two hardwood boards. The turntable will not be placed between my speakers, but the room will have two self-powered subwoofers. (I gotta get the bottom octave you know!?)

So I either decide up front what cartridge I want to buy and just live with it, or I buy something like the Moerch, which may have a small limitation with its cabling, and then enjoy the possibility of using the arm with a wider range of cartridges.

I would not call the ZYX flawed in anyway, and I am sure Dudley never intended to say that, nor did I read that interpretation. Seemingly, he preferred a cartridge that had more texture, nuance, and layering I believe. He felt that the ZYX very accurately reproduced what was on the record surface with steady neutrality while minimizing surface noise, a very big plus, and while providing excellent tracking. And what’s wrong with that I ask? So it seems that the "house sound" for ZYX is no sound at all while providing a quite ride and very good tracking. I would not call that flawed.

As for Fremer, well he likes a lot more excitement than me. I still get a kick out of Perry Como. (Wait a minute; the nurse is coming with my medication and my light gray Cardigan. Now that’s better.) Who knows how he set up the ZYX or whether his tonearm was a good match. I know he uses a very expensive Simon York with a Graham 2.2 arm.

Dudley also has a fairly tricked-out Linn turntable, if that matters. But let’s face it: the Linn is not better than a Teres 265 with a Triplanar VII! No indeed!

And I guess we can discount whatever Sam Tellig says, right?

>>Despite his abrasive style, I trust Salvatore's ears…<<

I don’t know what to think of Salvatore. I feel he’s too dogmatic, rigid, and iconoclastic for me. Your advice and the advice given by Twl is much better balanced and more objective in a rational way.

>>The 901 does the opposite in a sense. It overshoots on leading edges, which slightly etches the edges of everything and makes it all sound a touch over the top… Very exciting, very detailed, not at all warmish….<<

If the Shelter 901 sounds over the top in your system, how do you think it would sound in mine? I will have to pass on this cartridge. Did different loadings have any effect? Did you try a lower resistance setting to try to soften the top end?

>>I've only heard your ML's once, and that in a shop with a poor setup. Even worse, they were brand new and certainly not broken in. I'll trust your characterization of course. (BTW, do you hear a disconnect between the bass drivers and the midrange/treble. I thought I did but I was only there for a minute.) If the ML's are the slightest bit bright or edgy or tizzy, a Shelter 901 may emphasize that. A Koetsu will round it off a bit. A ZYX will play it pretty much straight down the middle, nothing emphasized but nothing hidden either.<<

The Martin Logans can have a transistorized, metallic, even bright sound if not set up correctly, broken in, or used with the right electronics. I have heard many different models over the years driven by Threshold, Audio Research, Krell, Classe Audio, Adcom, Premier, Spectral, Proceed, McIntosh, Sunfire, and Mark Levinson. Threshold sounded dry, sterile, and lifeless. Audio Research, not the Reference Series, had a steely quality in the upper midrange that gave me listening fatigue. Classe was lovely and sweet, but I got a headache after about 40 minutes. Spectral was even worse: I got a headache in only 20 minutes. Premier was well balanced but very bright, as was Adcom (big surprise). Proceed and Mark Levinson give a nicely warm, well balanced, rich, and nuanced presentation. I can listen to my Proceed AMP 5/Martin Logan Ascent combination for three or four hours with no fatigue whatsoever. The same is nearly true with the Sunfire, which has the most open, transparent, uncolored, and clear sound of any amplifier I have ever heard, but it could use a little more warmth and sweetness to give it a tad more soul. The McIntosh (MC402) was a real stinker. It was warm and overly rich, almost to the point of being diffuse. The bass had a billowing quality, the soundstage was deep but not very wide, and the highs were tipped up with a very rich additive glow that was most unnatural.

Little wonder that the best demos of ML speakers I have heard were with Mark Levinson and VTL.

In my system, I plan to add a tubed amp for the ESL panels and a solid state amp to drive the woofers. I plan to use a passive biamping arrangement with an attenuator affixed to the RCA inputs on the solid state amp to help balance its gain with that of the tubed unit.

As for any discontinuity between the woofers and panels, I have never really detected such a problem, but then the Martin Logan Ascent uses a single ten-inch, aluminum-coated driver with a robust magnet that creates a very quick, tight, and percussive bass. I never feel that the ELS panels are out of synch with the woofers. I only have about 18 months of experience with my speakers with an average listening time of about two hours a day, so there’s always the possibility that I might detect this discontinuity over time.

In your system, I would suspect that the ZYX would fit well with the B&W N803/C-J MF2500A/C-J PV-11 combination. (I Own a PV-14L, so I know a little about the Conrad-Johnson sound.) In this situation, a very steady neutrality would be in the best service of your system’s overall synergy.

I think I will go and watch a movie now. All this typing is making my arm hurt!

Thanks again!

I feel the same way about the Shelter 901 cart whenever I have heard it either at my house or at my dealer's. The highs are a bit ragged. Listening to stuff like the Dixie Chick's Natalie Maine's voice is quite fatiguing. So yeah, I would definately say the cart leans towards brightness.

I think that the 501 is the way to go for the short term(or even long term). The 501 has a "magic" to it that the 901 doesn't possess, and while the 901 has more detail, the 501 excells in just making great sounding music at a lower price. I've know a couple of people who moved from the 501 to the 901, and yearned for the magic that was in the 501, and was missing in the 901, even though the 901 was noticeably more detailed. I find the 501 to be very Koetsu-like, and I like that. The 501 is no slouch in any department, but it is not the "pinnacle" either. It strikes a very good balance of detail, magic, musicality, and price. I think that unless you have a "super-arm" the 501 is as good as anyone will ever need. Many people have previously considered this cartridge to be very near the top of the last few years crop of cartridges, and that isn't bad, considering its price. If high-value is a consideration, the 501 has to be among the top choices, if not the very top choice. The DL103R at $239 is probably my choice as the very best cartridge for the money, as it approaches the 501 in performance for about 1/3 the cost. Dollar for dollar, you can get more with the DL103R than any other cartidge that I know of. It will flat embarrass alot of much more expensive cartridges. And at $239, you can afford to play your records alot, without even considering stylus wear. It has alot going for it, but it needs a very good arm, with high effective mass, or a HiFi mod.

You know, regarding the OL Silver, I wasn't overly impressed with the appearance either, and it looked very plain. But with a DL103R on it, and a HiFi mod, we were looking at a very good performing package that cost less than most decent arms alone. When I got mine, the OL Silver was only $740, and the DL103R was only $210. The HiFi mod was just pennies. For under $1k, this setup was pulling very close to some very expensive stuff. That meant alot to me, because I can't afford $3k tonearms, and $2k cartridges. Believe me, when I set that stylus down in the record and started to listen, I forgot all about how it looked, or how little it cost(except that I kept smiling about how great it was for so little money). No, it is not the ultimate, but on the "diminishing returns" scale, it is totally out of proportion. It plays very very close to the "big league", for entry level dollars. And with the Shelter 501 in it, it is actually in the "big league" although not at the very top. If performance for the money is important to you, this needs to be considered as a possibility.

And, as Dougdeacon so accurately posted a while back, the HiFi-modded OL Silver could quite possibly be the best tonearm in the world for "leading-edge dynamics". If you look at any "big league" tonearm, they only top the list in one category, or maybe two, at most. There is a "leader" for midrange liquidity, and a leader for bass response, and a leader for etched detail, etc, etc. Any tonearm that leads the pack in any one category, must be considered in the "big leagues" of tonearms. You won't find any other "category leaders" at the price of an OL Silver with a HiFi mod.

For the money spent on a HiFi modded OL Silver, and a DL103R or Shelter 501, you will be painfully close to the top of the heap, for a whole lot less money, and it would be a great sounding package for anyone beginning in this hobby, as well as any very experienced person. Heck, I'm considered pretty experienced in analog, and I run a HiFi modded OL Silver and a Shelter 501 on my Teres 245. And I'll put it up against anything, anytime. Maybe it won't win all the time, but it will be real close at way less money. And it makes me happy with the sound.

Dear Rushton: " Raul considers tube... equalizers ".
First I don't consider, this is a fact: the tube electronics function like equalizers, probed by the phisics laws.
Let me explain the whole thing ( this is only for the people that cares about the music: music lovers ): when any one of us receive and LP/CD/SACD/DVD-A the " signal " that come inside these devices comes heavy degraded from the original ( microphones, cables mixers, consoles,editing,cut,... ), so what to do at our home reproduction audio systems?: to try to degraded the less, the analog chain for the music reproduction is a long one: cartridge, headshell wires, internal tonearm wire, tonearm, phono cable, phono stage, line preamp, more cables, amplifier, loudspeakers, more cables and conectors, room, know how, etc......, in all these links the signal is degraded ( it does not matter what we do )again and again, so what we are hearing : a very very heavy degraded signal. As I told you at the beguining of this post: the best that we can do is to try to degraded the less in every step in this long and very sensible analog music reproduction.
When we use tube electronics always do a heavy degradation , let see why: when the signal goes through any tube the tube adds harmonics that does not exist in the signal and the problem is not only the degradation of the signal but that that harmonics are at hearing levels, so in this stage the tube electronics works like a " signal generator ". Now, all the tubes change the frecuency response of the signal that goes through an speaker because that frecuency response changes with the changes in the impedance frecuency of the speaker, so the tube is equalizing the signal reproduction.
There are other problems with the tube electronics: the signal has to pass for many many metres of wire in their transformers that works like filters and represent another heavy degradation of our beloved signal ( yes I know that exist the OTL version of this amplifiers, well the problem with this OTL are worst ).
So, the tube electronics by music reproduction is the wrong way: heavy, heavy, heavy signal degradation.
All these things and many more are happen with the tube electronics music reproduction ( here it is not a matter of if I like the sound reproduction of the tubes or I don't like it: it is a matter of take care about that beloved signal and cvares about music )

All of you are taking heavy care about: uninterrupted wires, VTA/SRA, resonance frecuency in toneram/cartridge, turntables, cables, cartridges, phono stage, LP, etc....,
for what? if all these care time consuming work will be heavy degraded: think about it. I think that sooner or latter you have to care about it.
I'm not against tubes, I'm only in favor of music. In the past I had tubes too and I learn what happen with them and what happen with SS electronics. When I change from tubes to SS I really was dissapointed, till understand that I have to work heavy in my new audio system for to have a decent sound: change the speaker position, speaker cables, and some other things that was wrong in my audio system and that I never knew because the tubes has not the resolution for I can " see it ". Yes, we have to have patience when we change from tubes to SS electronics, but if you do well and with the same care that you already have for your tubes, then you always win because you will be nearest to the : MUSIC.
Regards and always enjoy the music.
Raul.

Sorry, Raul. We've been through this before and we will continue to disagree, no matter in what absolutist terms you continue to state your thesis.
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