Linn LP12......That good??

Newmanoc,
Obviously, my comment about Salvatore has struck a nerve. I am certain that his critism of the Linn has made many people quite upset. But I do not have a blog, I have never been called "crusty" (at least not to my face) and I certainly do not have a persecution complex. However, I have had a lot of experience with many turntables over the past 30 years and I essentially agree with Salvatore's position on the Linn. I have also had many friends over the years who have used Linns and some that still do. I am sure that, even those that have moved on to better tables, would never lament their years with the Linn; however, I am equally certain none would want to go back to the Linn having experienced superior sound from more modern designs. On the subject of marketing: Linn wrote the book on marketing in the high end audio and, like all very successful marketing schemes, there is a considerable amount of hype and exageration (even untruths) in statements made.

Ok Newmanoc, We get your take on Salvatore's somewhat eccentric ruminations. Frankly it's easy to criticize others for their opinions/experience and quite another thing to risk putting your own thoughts out for the same for mentioned scrutiny. This is meant only in a friendly nature and I have little interest in confrontation for it's sake alone but, where are you at on the thread topic "Linn LP12......That good??"? I found Cleopatra52's post to offer an opinion based in sound experience and the fact that this A'gon member mentioned Salvatore's site as a point of reference I see as no huge crime. In fact, I find a number of points on which Arthur Salvatore hits the nail on the head. Anyway, I believe it would add to your credibility and help X1884 and the rest of us to offer your options/experience to this thread.

"I did not hear the Lingo but come on guys, be serious, was the Linn's Valhalla motor circuit the entire reason for the Linn's mediocre bass performance?"

Jafox:
Actually, yes. The lingo adds what seems like another octave to the bass over a Valhalla, and that is just the beginning of the improvement. I've owned both and know the difference first hand. It seems crazy that a power supply alone could do this for a table, but it does for the LP 12.

As to your comparison of the LP 12 to other tables, keep in mind the version of the LP 12 you were using -valhalla, cirkus, ittok - can be had for around $1500 on the used market. There is nothing I have heard in this price range that sounds remotely as good. The same is true once you add the $1000 a Lingo costs on the used market - it is still far and away the best I have heard for the money.

Where I think people choke on the LP 12 is the idea of buying one new. I suspect this is a very fair criticism. (But incidentally, not the question raised by the original poster.) I haven't heard enough tables in the 10K range to say for sure, but I would be surprised if you couldn't do better than a Linn for this money. (But I should say I have heard Clearaudio tables and greatly prefered my much cheaper used Lingo'd LP 12.)

But I do not own stock in Linn, nor have I married the equipment. And by no means have I done all the A/B's I would like to with other tables. I am always on the look out for things I like better for the money. I would anticipate that if I don't end up replacing my LP 12,at the very least in a few years I'll be like Narrod - the happy owner of more than one high end table.

As to set up, it IS a big issue. Perhaps not for you, who have taken the time to learn what you are doing, but this in no way describes the average guy picking up a table on ebay. And if not set up properly, these things a less than half of what they can be.

There are many rigid suspension TT out there that have a blacker background than the Linn but I find many of them also are not as lively in the reproduction of acoustic music. They seem to suck some of the life out of the music yet give a sharp relief or contrast if you will, of what is left. A great audiophile trick but I'm looking and listening for the sound of live music.

Excellent comments Newmanoc, I would echo your assessment of the Lingo and the used price of a Linn as a value in the current market. The last bit you offered is a serious caveat to those unknowing or not interested in set up, yet it wouldn't stop me from buying one used today if I hadn't paid retail for one so many years ago. IMHO I feel set up makes all the difference. Cheers!

Cleopatra52:
I was not implying you were crusty, paranoid (or a blogger). Indeed, your comments in this thread have struck me as measured and reasonable, which made it striking when you linked them to Salvadore, whose opinions are none of these things. And I do not speak about his LP 12 opinions alone. If he said nothing at all about the LP 12, or even if he said he liked it, I would still think he is a crank and a bit of a quack. He states views on many other audio matters in an absolute, arrogant manner that grate when you know he is dead wrong as measured by your tastes and those of many of your friends. But more than my finding him irritating, I think it is important for me to push back anytime someone sites him in one of these threads as authoritative, lest less experienced posters become confused that he speaks with any sort of legitimacy on audio beyond his own highly personal opinion. People must make up their own mind based on their own ears, and I believe trusting Salvadore for many is a recipe for sonic disaster and wasting money. He is so far off the mark on many quite expensive recommendations (again, at least based on my ears and those of many others I know).