2. analog
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Analog experiment

Hi everyone. Some of you will remember my post from a couple weeks back about trying out vinyl. My dealer setup that old AR for me and I listened to it for a while and then listened to the same records on a new Pro-Ject RM 6 SB with a Sumiko Blue Point #2 cartridge. I liked the Pro-Ject better so I took it home for an audition in my system.

I borrowed some basically new LPs from my dealer's collection. Most of them are the 180 gm. "audiophile grade" limited editions. I got U2 War, Eagles Hell Freezes Over, John Lee Hooker, Pink Floyd DSOTM and REM Document. I was familiar with all these and own the CD counterpart of each album for direct comparisons.

I carefully setup the turntable making sure it was level. My dealer has been selling turntables for decades so I trust the other adjustments. I used the C42 to level-match the outputs of my Sony C333ES SACD player and the Pro-Ject, again for fair direct comparisons.

I listened to each album on its own on the turntable and then I went back and played the Sony in parallel. I switched between the two sources from my listening chair. In this case, I would keep the turntable 40 seconds ahead of the Sony so every 40 seconds I could hear the exact same passage in digital form. Hearing memory is short so I kept the interval short. I also made longer comparisons to be sure of my thoughts.

The bottom line is that the Pro-Ject didn't sound any better than my Sony. They had exactly the same tonality and soundstaging. On DSOFTM in SACD, the Sony was virtually indistinguishable from the turntable. I couldn't believe it. This is the first time I can't hear a reliable difference between two different components.

With other records, the turntable seemed to have a slightly more extended and weightier bottom end. But then the Sony had slightly better definition so it was a wash. After these tests, I see no reason for me to go with vinyl. You think maybe the phono stage in my C42 isn't good enough? Or maybe the turntable should be a better one? Well then, I am even less interested in vinyl if that is the case. The Sony costs about $350 these days.

I am sure some of you will be upset with my decision but I have to say I was excited to try it out and I kept my outlook totally unbiased. I loved the looks of the Pro-Ject and my dealer has an awesome collection of vinyl for sale at really good prices so I wanted to tap into that. But I don't see any reason to do that now. Oh well!

Arthur
aball
stefanl
296 posts
 
You know I found that when Lp's were sounding like Cd's and you couldn't tell the difference it was because my turntable set-up was incorrect.Usually too much tracking weight and not spot-on,and the VTA was out as well.I also agree with much of what Jyprez said about whether the recording is true analogue or not and you have yet to convince me of the 180gram pressing in reality.Van Den Hul(Cartridge maker) himself says that recordings were made better in the 60's and Decca engineers in those days knew that vinyl above 160 grams in weight starts to become problematic for good audio.
gregm
3,021 posts
 
Aball sez:
You think maybe the phono stage in my C42 isn't good enough? Or maybe the turntable should be a better one? Well then, I am even less interested in vinyl if that is the case.
I understand that. That's exactly the problem many people have with vinyl -- basically a financial-practical combination problem. OTOH, the sonic result trying analogue on the fly wasn't bad, as you note.

I loved the looks of the Pro-Ject and my dealer has an awesome collection of vinyl for sale at really good prices so I wanted to tap into that.
In your case that would be the only reason (the music) to go into vinyl. OTOH, in order to have a better sonic result than you experienced, you need to tackle 3.5 crucial parametres:
1) Correct TT+arm+cartridge combination
2) Correct SET-UP of the above
3) Correct matching between TT output and phono input
Later: 3.5) A good phono: i.e. exotic or diy or very expensive anyway you look at it.

Most of us never achieve 3 and few of us can afford 3.5; we all battle with 2 (which isn't rocket science, fortunately).
So, you're probably OK as you are:)
rnm4
282 posts
 
I don't think 40 second intervals are even close to long enough to acclimate your ears to what you are hearing, and allow you to appreciate the differences that matter. Your strategy was extremely artificial, and your head cannot have been into the music at all -- just the sound. Your brain will also under such circumstances attempt to normalize what it receives.

I had friends over the other night, and we listened to a bunch of music -- several songs from a given LP or CD at a time -- in a casual, talk-over-it-if-you-like-kind-of-way. People seemed a helluva lot more inclined to talk over the CDs than the LP. They even talked about how good the CDs sounded. But they shut up (more anyway) and listened to the music when the LPs played. Not a scientific test, by any means (but then neither was yours). But I find this typical.
elizabeth
6,726 posts
 
The best reason to go back to vinyl is if you have access to large collections of old LPs.
The idea of spending $thousands on a TT then searching for a few LPs to play is (In my opinion) foolish.
Yes a nice TT can sound great. but is it worth it?
I say only if you can get some LPs! Buying them one at a time at over $10 is not really a great idea. (If you are wealthy, disreguard this!!)
I have 10,000 I got over a few years just three/four/five years ago. The vast majority (except Jazz) were $0.20 each to $0.50 each. (I got these to satisfy my needs when I retire in only 5 years)
NO classical LP is worth more than $0.50 IMO (and I collect and listen to a lot of classical.. 5,000 LPs) (well, maybe a few Merc 90000 series, RCA Living stereo shaded dogs, but still, moneywise, not much more)
Rock is worth a buck, except a few pristine originals.
Jazz is different, finding a fine pristine Jazz LP is hard to do... (So I only have under 2,000 or so...)
Anyway, This is my story and I stick to it.
And LPs sound different than CDs... Usually better.
Anyway, for the due/dudette thinking about getting back into LPs... Consider the quantity of LPs available to you besides the cost of the TT/cart/phono section.
jyprez's avatar
jyprez
229 posts
 
Arthur, you are right in realizing that you must find the right pressings to get the analog sound. It is difficult (or easy but expensive) to put together a good vinyl collection today that allows you to enjoy the advantages of vinyl over CD. Believe me, (and countless others on Agon) these advantages are real but if you are starting from scratch, the biggest problem is software not hardware. Ebay does afford a vast collection but you will pay dearly for the most sought after LP's. On the other hand, there are hundreds of nice LP's for under $10. It's all a question of where your musical tastes lie and what is the best way to satisfy them. But remember, the best analog rig in the world will not make a digitally mastered LP sound anything better than a CD.
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